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There are two perspectives on democracy. You can compare it to some ideal world that has never been, and easily see it falls short, by a lot. Or you can look b

by ozy 10y ago

There are two perspectives on democracy. You can compare it to some ideal world that has never been, and easily see it falls short, by a lot. Or you can look back on history, and look at countries who have done things differently, and realize it is by far the best system we have had. If you want to live a full lifetime in peace and security and health. Be born in a democratic and capitalist country somewhere in the past 70 years, and you maximize that chance. Any other time and place and the chance of a good life drops quickly. To other commenters in this thread, describing democracy or capitalism with words like "disastrous" or "complete failure" or "elite rule", please some perspective.

kobeya 10y ago
When encountering a shortcoming of the world, there are two responses: You can compare it to what has happened before and console yourself that of observed past histories, this situation ain't so bad. Or you can imagine what has never been, and try to create a society better than has ever existed before. There was once a time when democracy of modern form had never been tried, outside of some rugged mountain towns in the Alps, and yet those in the face of tyranny had the gall to try something new. Isn't that an example we should emulate?
- ozy 10y ago
  We do not have democracies because people had the "gall to try something new". We slowly grew into it because people demanded better and used opportunities to move us closer. And this is what we should continue doing. In no way did my comment indicate we should just be quiet and think it is not so bad. But at the same time, this is the best we ever had. Calling it a failure is like calling an olympic gold medallist the worst athlete in history. Even if this is the 1920 olympics and the times set there will be a laugh when compared to the 2020 olympics. Someone with so little perspective will not be able to change the world for the better. "Imagine what has never been" does not do much unless it is well grounded in reality. (edit: "Someone" here was not directed at @kobeya, but to those refer to democracy/capitalism as failure)
  - kobeya 10y ago
    Failure does not mean "worst in history." Failure simply means "my standards are higher than this." There's nothing wrong with being so audacious as to have standards unmeetable by any past accomplishment. I call that a progress-oriented mindset.

by ozy 10y ago

kobeya 10y ago

When encountering a shortcoming of the world, there are two responses: You can compare it to what has happened before and console yourself that of observed past histories, this situation ain't so bad. Or you can imagine what has never been, and try to create a society better than has ever existed before. There was once a time when democracy of modern form had never been tried, outside of some rugged mountain towns in the Alps, and yet those in the face of tyranny had the gall to try something new. Isn't that an example we should emulate?

ozy 10y ago
We do not have democracies because people had the "gall to try something new". We slowly grew into it because people demanded better and used opportunities to move us closer. And this is what we should continue doing. In no way did my comment indicate we should just be quiet and think it is not so bad. But at the same time, this is the best we ever had. Calling it a failure is like calling an olympic gold medallist the worst athlete in history. Even if this is the 1920 olympics and the times set there will be a laugh when compared to the 2020 olympics. Someone with so little perspective will not be able to change the world for the better. "Imagine what has never been" does not do much unless it is well grounded in reality. (edit: "Someone" here was not directed at @kobeya, but to those refer to democracy/capitalism as failure)
- kobeya 10y ago
  Failure does not mean "worst in history." Failure simply means "my standards are higher than this." There's nothing wrong with being so audacious as to have standards unmeetable by any past accomplishment. I call that a progress-oriented mindset.