5 ms·

Germany has the concept of a non-refusal in order to not impose and just show politeness as well. There is no massive cultural difference here. Sometimes thoug

by DasIch 10y ago

Germany has the concept of a non-refusal in order to not impose and just show politeness as well. There is no massive cultural difference here. Sometimes though you just say no, this is one of these times. As a German I'm not baffled at all by the U.K. Brexit talk. Politicians in the U.K. have simply created a mess they don't quite know how to get out of, this is how they placate the electorate while they're trying to figure it out. It seems to me what's really baffling to some people is how Germany thinks of the EU. It seems to me that not many people realize just how highly the EU is valued in Germany across the political spectrum. People seem to severely underestimate what sacrifices Germany is willing to make in the context of Brexit to benefit the EU. Among politicians in Germany I think the consensus is that having a hard Brexit, a crash of Britain and the effects on other countries in the EU including Germany would be unfortunate. Further damage to the EU however would be considered catastrophic. At least some people in Berlin have essentially already written off the U.K. in their minds. If article 50 is invoked in march and the clock starts ticking, it will be fascinating to see the horror of the people coming to realize this.

_9MOTHER9HORSE 10y ago
> It seems to me that not many people realize just how highly the EU is valued in Germany across the political spectrum. People seem to severely underestimate what sacrifices Germany is willing to make in the context of Brexit to benefit the EU. The perception of the EU as a German project — or experiment, if you will — was one of the factors leading people to vote for Brexit.
- emp_zealoth 10y ago
  I believe a lot of countries will show no mercy to UK, not just germany. No one wants to see a lopsided deal struck at the expense of their own.
  - gravypod 10y ago
    Isn't that quite scary for you? I don't think I'd every want to be part of a multinational organization that has unelected rulers, is attempting to build a military, and will give anyone leaving it a hard time. That's an absurd state to be in and it's already a parody of itself.
    - emp_zealoth 10y ago
      The EU is not giving UK hard time. It is simply no longer willing to go above and beyond to appease them nor should it do so. If UK does not want to take part in responsibilities but would like to keep the benefits EU is not able to allow that. It is a simple fact that there are no satisfactory ways for UK to leave EU and it is not EU fault. Most of EU rulers are democratically elected, at least no less than in most country-level governments. I support federalisation of EU. Most of the issues with EU stem from not enough integration and overly nationalistic nonsense countries do to the detriment of everybody. Euro needs a reform that will introduce transfers to less wealthy states, UK blocking much needed finance reform to keep its criminal City afloat, different countries throwing everyone under the bus so they can protect their own reelection. Any talk of "sovereignity" is goddamn laughable in this day and age, between the banks and trade agreemens and megacorps Together the EU is the biggest economy, outside of it you are just a shitty country that is hungover on glory long past
      - gravypod 10y ago
        >Most of EU rulers are democratically elected, at least no less than in most country-level governments. "Most", need I say more? > Most of the issues with EU stem from not enough integration and overly nationalistic nonsense countries do to the detriment of everybody "Ok so what we're doing isn't working out but if you give us more money and power I swear it'll work guys! Just trust me and give up your currency, boarders, militaries, and legislative branches and don't worry this isn't sketchy at all" > Euro needs a reform that will introduce transfers to less wealthy states Ah so the EU is now a charity/Robin Hood organization. Not a government? Most government's aren't so selfless. I'd go so far as to say that no government can be as selfless. > UK blocking much needed finance reform to keep its criminal City afloat Criminal City? > different countries throwing everyone under the bus so they can protect their own reelection. That's what happens with all governments. It's not about the public, it's about maintaining power. > Any talk of "sovereignity" is goddamn laughable in this day and age, between the banks and trade agreemens and megacorps Would you have found it better for black people living in America during segregation to say "Any talk of "equality" is goddamn laughable in this day and age, between the government and the kkk and the racist people" or do you think it was right for them to fight to reverse the encroachment of their basic human rights? I see Brexit as a means of fighting back against a relentless ruling class that has grown out of an apathy of the working class. > Together the EU is the biggest economy, outside of it you are just a shitty country that is hungover on glory long past I can't see a single economist predicting a good future for the EU. It all looks doom and gloom from here on out. I'd say that the countries that are the worst off would benifit the most from less trade regulations. Look at what China and India have become. "Super power by 2020" would be a great thing to hear about the eastern block but that will never be the case under EU's thumbs

by DasIch 10y ago

_9MOTHER9HORSE 10y ago

> It seems to me that not many people realize just how highly the EU is valued in Germany across the political spectrum. People seem to severely underestimate what sacrifices Germany is willing to make in the context of Brexit to benefit the EU. The perception of the EU as a German project — or experiment, if you will — was one of the factors leading people to vote for Brexit.

emp_zealoth 10y ago
I believe a lot of countries will show no mercy to UK, not just germany. No one wants to see a lopsided deal struck at the expense of their own.
- gravypod 10y ago
  Isn't that quite scary for you? I don't think I'd every want to be part of a multinational organization that has unelected rulers, is attempting to build a military, and will give anyone leaving it a hard time. That's an absurd state to be in and it's already a parody of itself.
  - emp_zealoth 10y ago
    The EU is not giving UK hard time. It is simply no longer willing to go above and beyond to appease them nor should it do so. If UK does not want to take part in responsibilities but would like to keep the benefits EU is not able to allow that. It is a simple fact that there are no satisfactory ways for UK to leave EU and it is not EU fault. Most of EU rulers are democratically elected, at least no less than in most country-level governments. I support federalisation of EU. Most of the issues with EU stem from not enough integration and overly nationalistic nonsense countries do to the detriment of everybody. Euro needs a reform that will introduce transfers to less wealthy states, UK blocking much needed finance reform to keep its criminal City afloat, different countries throwing everyone under the bus so they can protect their own reelection. Any talk of "sovereignity" is goddamn laughable in this day and age, between the banks and trade agreemens and megacorps Together the EU is the biggest economy, outside of it you are just a shitty country that is hungover on glory long past
    - gravypod 10y ago
      >Most of EU rulers are democratically elected, at least no less than in most country-level governments. "Most", need I say more? > Most of the issues with EU stem from not enough integration and overly nationalistic nonsense countries do to the detriment of everybody "Ok so what we're doing isn't working out but if you give us more money and power I swear it'll work guys! Just trust me and give up your currency, boarders, militaries, and legislative branches and don't worry this isn't sketchy at all" > Euro needs a reform that will introduce transfers to less wealthy states Ah so the EU is now a charity/Robin Hood organization. Not a government? Most government's aren't so selfless. I'd go so far as to say that no government can be as selfless. > UK blocking much needed finance reform to keep its criminal City afloat Criminal City? > different countries throwing everyone under the bus so they can protect their own reelection. That's what happens with all governments. It's not about the public, it's about maintaining power. > Any talk of "sovereignity" is goddamn laughable in this day and age, between the banks and trade agreemens and megacorps Would you have found it better for black people living in America during segregation to say "Any talk of "equality" is goddamn laughable in this day and age, between the government and the kkk and the racist people" or do you think it was right for them to fight to reverse the encroachment of their basic human rights? I see Brexit as a means of fighting back against a relentless ruling class that has grown out of an apathy of the working class. > Together the EU is the biggest economy, outside of it you are just a shitty country that is hungover on glory long past I can't see a single economist predicting a good future for the EU. It all looks doom and gloom from here on out. I'd say that the countries that are the worst off would benifit the most from less trade regulations. Look at what China and India have become. "Super power by 2020" would be a great thing to hear about the eastern block but that will never be the case under EU's thumbs