4 ms·

do you really believe that germany has a higher percentage of impoverished people than the us?i would think the lowest american salaries are lower than german w

do you really believe that germany has a higher percentage of impoverished people than the us?i would think the lowest american salaries are lower than german welfare

llimllib 19y ago
Should be easy to figure out, but a quick google was unable to turn up an average welfare recipients' salary. In the us, 5.85 * 40 * 52 = $12,168 annually. Figure 30% taxes, and you're at $8517 annually. Who has better knowledge and/or google-fu to dig up what an average german welfare recipient makes per year? (Also, most states have a higher minimum wage than 5.85: http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm . Also, the Euro/US exchange rate doesn't really express living costs. Perhaps we should measure salary in terms of milk or bread for a more fair comparison?)
- tphyahoo 19y ago
  salary is only the supply side of the equation. what about cost of living? germans living in the city don't need a car. they have health care. even if they are unemployed layabouts, their kids have a chance for a subsidized education, and they don't have to balance the opportunity cost against a crapload of debt.
  - llimllib 19y ago
    Americans living in the city don't need a car. They have health care (Check it: http://www.ncdhhs.gov/dma/basicmedelig.pdf http://www.ncdhhs.gov/dma/basicmedelig.pdf if you make <$12000 per year, you're in Medicaid on top of Medicare. Furthermore emergency medicine is always free.) Their kids have a chance for a subsidized education (public school is always free, many colleges offer ridiculous amounts of aid as well as work opportunities to students from very poor families. I know mine was very good with this.) (Not that I'm saying our medicare/medicaid/emergency system isn't somewhat broken. For example, many people who qualify have not filled out the necessary paperwork to join. The problem with lack of medical coverage, though, is much less with the indigent than it is with those just over the poverty line.)
    - tphyahoo 19y ago
      You're right in a way, at least regarding education. If you're very poor, but smart, america probably offers more opportunities than most euro places. Elite Unis heavily subsidize in this case. The more common case though, is somewhat poor (single mom, 3 siblings, $40,000 a year), and somewhat smart but not national merit level. Many people in this situation seem to wind up getting aid packages with low interest, but huge principal, managing to get their degree but graduating with a lot of debt. This may be changing with even the shift to free tuition by some elite unis, but haven't seen really big changes yet. In your last sentence, you seem to make the same point, only for med care rather than education. So perhaps we agree that the american system is harshest on people who are poor but not "poverty level." That is a bad way to be though. Because what happens when you are poverety level, and work your ass off to get up to the "just poor" level? You lose all that subsidy! And back to poverty level, for many.
      - llimllib 19y ago
        Agreed, but the comment I was responding to was talking about the lowest American salary vs. German welfare; not about people making just above the lowest American salary.

do you really believe that germany has a higher percentage of impoverished people than the us?i would think the lowest american salaries are lower than german welfare

llimllib 19y ago

Should be easy to figure out, but a quick google was unable to turn up an average welfare recipients' salary. In the us, 5.85 * 40 * 52 = $12,168 annually. Figure 30% taxes, and you're at $8517 annually. Who has better knowledge and/or google-fu to dig up what an average german welfare recipient makes per year? (Also, most states have a higher minimum wage than 5.85: http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm . Also, the Euro/US exchange rate doesn't really express living costs. Perhaps we should measure salary in terms of milk or bread for a more fair comparison?)

tphyahoo 19y ago
salary is only the supply side of the equation. what about cost of living? germans living in the city don't need a car. they have health care. even if they are unemployed layabouts, their kids have a chance for a subsidized education, and they don't have to balance the opportunity cost against a crapload of debt.
- llimllib 19y ago
  Americans living in the city don't need a car. They have health care (Check it: http://www.ncdhhs.gov/dma/basicmedelig.pdf http://www.ncdhhs.gov/dma/basicmedelig.pdf if you make <$12000 per year, you're in Medicaid on top of Medicare. Furthermore emergency medicine is always free.) Their kids have a chance for a subsidized education (public school is always free, many colleges offer ridiculous amounts of aid as well as work opportunities to students from very poor families. I know mine was very good with this.) (Not that I'm saying our medicare/medicaid/emergency system isn't somewhat broken. For example, many people who qualify have not filled out the necessary paperwork to join. The problem with lack of medical coverage, though, is much less with the indigent than it is with those just over the poverty line.)
  - tphyahoo 19y ago
    You're right in a way, at least regarding education. If you're very poor, but smart, america probably offers more opportunities than most euro places. Elite Unis heavily subsidize in this case. The more common case though, is somewhat poor (single mom, 3 siblings, $40,000 a year), and somewhat smart but not national merit level. Many people in this situation seem to wind up getting aid packages with low interest, but huge principal, managing to get their degree but graduating with a lot of debt. This may be changing with even the shift to free tuition by some elite unis, but haven't seen really big changes yet. In your last sentence, you seem to make the same point, only for med care rather than education. So perhaps we agree that the american system is harshest on people who are poor but not "poverty level." That is a bad way to be though. Because what happens when you are poverety level, and work your ass off to get up to the "just poor" level? You lose all that subsidy! And back to poverty level, for many.
    - llimllib 19y ago
      Agreed, but the comment I was responding to was talking about the lowest American salary vs. German welfare; not about people making just above the lowest American salary.