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Article argues that diversity of ideas is what's important, rather than diversity of ethnicity/gender, describes trying to solve racial/gender diversity for its

Article argues that diversity of ideas is what's important, rather than diversity of ethnicity/gender, describes trying to solve racial/gender diversity for its own sake as "utterly broken". There's plenty of evidence that women and people from under-represented groups are discriminated against because of their identity. Here are a few on gender alone: [0][1][2][3][4] Perhaps there are cases of people being discriminated against for having "diverse" opinions, but it seems like a distinctly smaller problem, as witholding a controversial opinion is an option and witholding your existence is not. [0] Female students seen as less competent than identical male students with identical application materials, offered lower starting salaries (Moss-Racusin et al, 2012) [1] People in gender-incongruent roles penalised more heavily for mistakes (Brescoll, Dawson, & Uhlmann, 2010). [2] Voluble women perceived as less competent and less suitable leaders, inverse true for men (Brescoll, 2011). [3] Women who succeed in male-dominated fields percieved as not likeable (Heilman et al, 2004). [4] Students question the competence of female teachers who evaluate them negatively, less so than male teachers (Sinclair & Kunda 2000).

jimmywanger 10y ago
> There's plenty of evidence that women and people from under-represented groups are discriminated against because of their identity. Here are a few on gender alone: [0][1][2][3][4] Every single one of your examples has to do with gender, not ethnic diversity like the original article was talking about. Could you submit some evidence about under-represented groups?
- jacalata 10y ago
  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-sounding-names-study_us_561697a5e4b0dbb8000d687f http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-sounding-names-stu...
  - jimmywanger 10y ago
    Those are names, not actually people from under represented groups. I have Asian friends named Jerome, Tyrone and Miguel. By that kind of thinking they should they be given affirmative action.
    - jacalata 10y ago
      Oops, didn't realise you were already committed to not believing in discrimination.
      - jimmywanger 10y ago
        Nope, just committed to having people who cite facts to back up their assertions cite facts, that actually, you know, back up their assertions instead of a tangential point. But thanks for playing!
- richmarr 10y ago
  > Every single one of your examples has to do with gender, not ethnic diversity like the original article was talking about. It's interesting that you interpreted it that way. The author states that "diversity discussion is utterly broken", and I agree he focuses on race, but at no point did he constrain his criticism that to a particular sub-set of diversity. In addition: i) The article even opens with a lengthy movie reference (complete with a huge lead image) about the arrival of a woman at a previously all-male news team. ii) From the article: "We’re turning race or gender into a crutch being used as an excuse for real or perceived failures." iii) From the article: "Their goal is to help startups take proper steps to hire more women and minorities." I don't think there's much wiggle room on the intent of the author, stated or implied. I can only assume that either you didn't read the article completely or that you're attempting to move the goalposts; either consciously or due to confirmation bias. > Could you submit some evidence about under-represented groups? We could get into evidence for ethnic/racial bias if you really want to; but first I'd rather address the issue of why you feel like you need to move the discussion away from gender. Until we get past that problem, citing further evidence would likely just polarise the discussion and lead nowhere.
  - jimmywanger 10y ago
    > The author states that "diversity discussion is utterly broken", and I agree he focuses on race... My point was that the response's studies focus exclusively on gender, not on race at all, making it not as applicable to the article had he spoken to race at all in his reponse. Instead, he says "people discriminate against both gender and race" and only backs up the "discriminate against gender" argument.
    - richmarr 10y ago
      > Instead, he says "people discriminate against both gender and race" and only backs up the "discriminate against gender" argument. First you (incorrectly) complain that the article is only about racial diversity. Now you're complaining because I haven't provided evidence to back up every part of my original comment. I'll say again; I'm happy to get into racial diversity, but until we can clarify exactly why you want to dismiss the evidence I've shared on gender diversity I don't think it would be a productive use of my time. Engage in a conversation. Share an opinion. If you just want to sit back and snipe, saying "you didn't back up that bit, show me studies" you can do it with someone else.
deleted 10y ago
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jdp23 10y ago
This might be the best diversity-related comment I've ever seen on Hacker News. Of course it was downvoted.
- richmarr 10y ago
  Too kind, but thanks, and yeah this is a pretty hostile environment for this topic :/

jimmywanger 10y ago

> There's plenty of evidence that women and people from under-represented groups are discriminated against because of their identity. Here are a few on gender alone: [0][1][2][3][4] Every single one of your examples has to do with gender, not ethnic diversity like the original article was talking about. Could you submit some evidence about under-represented groups?

jacalata 10y ago
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-sounding-names-study_us_561697a5e4b0dbb8000d687f http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-sounding-names-stu...
- jimmywanger 10y ago
  Those are names, not actually people from under represented groups. I have Asian friends named Jerome, Tyrone and Miguel. By that kind of thinking they should they be given affirmative action.
  - jacalata 10y ago
    Oops, didn't realise you were already committed to not believing in discrimination.
    - jimmywanger 10y ago
      Nope, just committed to having people who cite facts to back up their assertions cite facts, that actually, you know, back up their assertions instead of a tangential point. But thanks for playing!
richmarr 10y ago
> Every single one of your examples has to do with gender, not ethnic diversity like the original article was talking about. It's interesting that you interpreted it that way. The author states that "diversity discussion is utterly broken", and I agree he focuses on race, but at no point did he constrain his criticism that to a particular sub-set of diversity. In addition: i) The article even opens with a lengthy movie reference (complete with a huge lead image) about the arrival of a woman at a previously all-male news team. ii) From the article: "We’re turning race or gender into a crutch being used as an excuse for real or perceived failures." iii) From the article: "Their goal is to help startups take proper steps to hire more women and minorities." I don't think there's much wiggle room on the intent of the author, stated or implied. I can only assume that either you didn't read the article completely or that you're attempting to move the goalposts; either consciously or due to confirmation bias. > Could you submit some evidence about under-represented groups? We could get into evidence for ethnic/racial bias if you really want to; but first I'd rather address the issue of why you feel like you need to move the discussion away from gender. Until we get past that problem, citing further evidence would likely just polarise the discussion and lead nowhere.
- jimmywanger 10y ago
  > The author states that "diversity discussion is utterly broken", and I agree he focuses on race... My point was that the response's studies focus exclusively on gender, not on race at all, making it not as applicable to the article had he spoken to race at all in his reponse. Instead, he says "people discriminate against both gender and race" and only backs up the "discriminate against gender" argument.
  - richmarr 10y ago
    > Instead, he says "people discriminate against both gender and race" and only backs up the "discriminate against gender" argument. First you (incorrectly) complain that the article is only about racial diversity. Now you're complaining because I haven't provided evidence to back up every part of my original comment. I'll say again; I'm happy to get into racial diversity, but until we can clarify exactly why you want to dismiss the evidence I've shared on gender diversity I don't think it would be a productive use of my time. Engage in a conversation. Share an opinion. If you just want to sit back and snipe, saying "you didn't back up that bit, show me studies" you can do it with someone else.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

jdp23 10y ago

This might be the best diversity-related comment I've ever seen on Hacker News. Of course it was downvoted.

richmarr 10y ago
Too kind, but thanks, and yeah this is a pretty hostile environment for this topic :/