4 ms·

While saving $30 sounds nice, it is not the biggest issue here. Historically Mac users have sacrificed cost for usability and elegance. Apple seems to be sugges

While saving $30 sounds nice, it is not the biggest issue here. Historically Mac users have sacrificed cost for usability and elegance. Apple seems to be suggesting the opposite is now a better idea? Right now, my $1,000 2012 Air has a charger, usb keyboard, usb phone charger, and a usb conference mic plugged into it. I don't even want to imagine carrying around the number of dongles that would allow me to do the same on a 2017 Pro machine.

wvenable 10y ago
Apple's idea of elegance has always been the same. Do you think it was always convenient to not have a floppy drive? It's hard to imagine now, but there was a time when the floppy was as important as an SD drive or a USB port.
- pak 10y ago
  The upgrade from floppy to optical only, or optical to bigger hard drives and SSDs and fast WiFi, are leaps in capability that don't even compare to the marginal gain of USB-C over USB3/Thunderbolt 2... especially when that "upgrade" is paired with the number of ports on an entry-level MBP dropping from 7 to 2 (not counting audio, which thankfully survived). With only 2 ports, you need a ridiculous number of big dongles or hubs to get serious work done, and any pro user with >1 external HD, display, or gigabit wired is rightfully wondering what the hell Apple was thinking.
  - outworlder 10y ago
    Optical audio did not survive, though.
  - wvenable 10y ago
    > you need a ridiculous number of big dongles or hubs to get serious work done Wouldn't having a single multi-port hub actually be superior? Instead of a bunch of cables connecting your laptop to multiple different devices you have one cable to the hub. Much easier to get up and move with.
    - pak 10y ago
      As of right now, the USB-C hub situation is actually pretty dire, as in the only all-in-one solutions are $100+, or not yet released [1] [2]. My past experience with non-powered USB hubs has taught me they're pretty hit-or-miss with a new device, so I don't see how cramming audio, video, and pass-thru power into them is going to help that situation. See the first five minutes of this video [3], which actually involves Apple's "Digital AV Multiport" adapter, to see the near-term experience of "dongle hell." [1]: http://www.bourgedesign.com/ http://www.bourgedesign.com/ [2]: http://www.macrumors.com/2016/11/03/owc-debuts-13-port-thunderbolt-3-dock/ http://www.macrumors.com/2016/11/03/owc-debuts-13-port-thund... [3]: https://vimeo.com/189525997 https://vimeo.com/189525997
- pier25 10y ago
  Nobody used floppy drives or optical ones when Apple removed them. Most people still use USB-A accessories. See the difference?
  - wvenable 10y ago
    People still used floppies in 1998. USB keys didn't exist at the time and nobody was going to waste a whole burnable CD for a document or a CS assignment. See the similarities?
    - pier25 10y ago
      Yes, but IIRC in 1998 it was pretty clear floppy disks were on their way out. I had my first PC with an optical drive around 1994 and there was no question that was the way of the future. Mice and keyboards work perfectly well on a USB-A connection, there is really no need to force everyone to buy dongles or to upgrade all your peripherals to USB-C.
      - wvenable 10y ago
        Floppy disks weren't replaced by burnable CDs, they were replaced by USB drives which didn't exist in 1994 or 1998. So the question of what was the way of the future wasn't even known when Apple removed the floppy drive. In fact there is some parallel here; we all know that USB-C is the way of the future. Every phone, every laptop, every desktop will eventually have these ports for everything. It will replace every proprietary DC power plug. But right now, just like it was in 1998, the future isn't quite here yet.
  - nicky0 10y ago
    People very much used CDs and DVDs when they removed them. The Air was widely mocked for it.
    - pier25 10y ago
      I didn't. The superdrive on my MBP 2007 died pretty fast and I never missed it. When I bought my 2011 MBP I removed the superdrive and installed a second hard drive. And that was just one model, the Air. If you wanted an optical drive you could buy a white macbook or a MBP. Now there are no options.
athenot 10y ago
Right now I have a few DVI-thunderbolt dongles and they are ugly. If the new ports are about elegance, I wish Apple made dongles with long cables, so as to hide the adapter part.
BHSPitMonkey 10y ago
Judging by the external keyboard, is it safe to say this is a desk setup where everything but the laptop usually stays there? In such cases it's smarter to just have those things (and displays too) plugged into a USB Type-C hub/dock which only requires you to plug in a single cable when you come and go. Your current setup already requires you do (dis)connect four different cables every time you move, so you can't exactly defend it as more elegant.
IBM 10y ago
Is it elegant when your MBP that you'll keep for 4-6 years has USB-A ports you won't use anymore after two years? If Apple put in 2 USB-A and 2 USB-C, half the ports would probably be useless for the majority of the computer's lifespan.
- pier25 10y ago
  > you won't use anymore after two years? Probably more like 5 years at best. Removing all USB-A ports would have been a bold move in 2018, but in 2016 it's delusional.
outworlder 10y ago
Historically, Apple has always dropped declining tech, even if they were at their prime. See also Floppy Disks, dedicated keyboard/mouse ports, Firewire. This is not the issue. Using dongles is also not the issue. Having a versatile port is a good thing. The issue is that they seem to be neglecting common use cases in their own platform. As in, you cannot plug an iPhone to their own computer, not even to charge it. This is inexcusable. At the very least, they've lost control of timing (if the next iphone happens to have a USB-C port). > Right now, my $1,000 2012 Air has a charger, usb keyboard, usb phone charger, and a usb conference mic plugged into it. I don't even want to imagine carrying around the number of dongles that would allow me to do the same on a 2017 Pro machine. A single USB-C port can replace all that and more, you can also carry power and video. There's no reason why those can't be provided by a single "dongle". Which would actually be more convenient to carry around. Would it have killed Apple to include a USB-C to USB3 dongle? I can't believe their margins are that thin.
- j2bax 10y ago
  Maybe they have data to suggest that plugging an iPhone into your computer isn't a very common use case anymore. I personally haven't plugged my iPhone 6 into my computer more than once or twice since I got it two years ago. With iCloud backups I now just drop my phone on a dock or plug directly into the wall on a daily basis. Even at my desk at work I use a dock thats plugged into the wall vs. my computer. I don't want iTunes popping up, scanning my phone etc etc. every time I return to my desk and plug my phone in.
- kenferry 10y ago
  > you cannot plug an iPhone to their own computer, not even to charge it Am I just confused? A USB-C to lightning cable connects an iPhone to a new mac without a dongle, no? It's just a different cable than before.
  - nicky0 10y ago
    It's not you that is confused.
nicky0 10y ago
You could probably do this with a single multi function adapter.

wvenable 10y ago

Apple's idea of elegance has always been the same. Do you think it was always convenient to not have a floppy drive? It's hard to imagine now, but there was a time when the floppy was as important as an SD drive or a USB port.

pak 10y ago
The upgrade from floppy to optical only, or optical to bigger hard drives and SSDs and fast WiFi, are leaps in capability that don't even compare to the marginal gain of USB-C over USB3/Thunderbolt 2... especially when that "upgrade" is paired with the number of ports on an entry-level MBP dropping from 7 to 2 (not counting audio, which thankfully survived). With only 2 ports, you need a ridiculous number of big dongles or hubs to get serious work done, and any pro user with >1 external HD, display, or gigabit wired is rightfully wondering what the hell Apple was thinking.
- outworlder 10y ago
  Optical audio did not survive, though.
- wvenable 10y ago
  > you need a ridiculous number of big dongles or hubs to get serious work done Wouldn't having a single multi-port hub actually be superior? Instead of a bunch of cables connecting your laptop to multiple different devices you have one cable to the hub. Much easier to get up and move with.
  - pak 10y ago
    As of right now, the USB-C hub situation is actually pretty dire, as in the only all-in-one solutions are $100+, or not yet released [1] [2]. My past experience with non-powered USB hubs has taught me they're pretty hit-or-miss with a new device, so I don't see how cramming audio, video, and pass-thru power into them is going to help that situation. See the first five minutes of this video [3], which actually involves Apple's "Digital AV Multiport" adapter, to see the near-term experience of "dongle hell." [1]: http://www.bourgedesign.com/ http://www.bourgedesign.com/ [2]: http://www.macrumors.com/2016/11/03/owc-debuts-13-port-thunderbolt-3-dock/ http://www.macrumors.com/2016/11/03/owc-debuts-13-port-thund... [3]: https://vimeo.com/189525997 https://vimeo.com/189525997
pier25 10y ago
Nobody used floppy drives or optical ones when Apple removed them. Most people still use USB-A accessories. See the difference?
- wvenable 10y ago
  People still used floppies in 1998. USB keys didn't exist at the time and nobody was going to waste a whole burnable CD for a document or a CS assignment. See the similarities?
  - pier25 10y ago
    Yes, but IIRC in 1998 it was pretty clear floppy disks were on their way out. I had my first PC with an optical drive around 1994 and there was no question that was the way of the future. Mice and keyboards work perfectly well on a USB-A connection, there is really no need to force everyone to buy dongles or to upgrade all your peripherals to USB-C.
    - wvenable 10y ago
      Floppy disks weren't replaced by burnable CDs, they were replaced by USB drives which didn't exist in 1994 or 1998. So the question of what was the way of the future wasn't even known when Apple removed the floppy drive. In fact there is some parallel here; we all know that USB-C is the way of the future. Every phone, every laptop, every desktop will eventually have these ports for everything. It will replace every proprietary DC power plug. But right now, just like it was in 1998, the future isn't quite here yet.
- nicky0 10y ago
  People very much used CDs and DVDs when they removed them. The Air was widely mocked for it.
  - pier25 10y ago
    I didn't. The superdrive on my MBP 2007 died pretty fast and I never missed it. When I bought my 2011 MBP I removed the superdrive and installed a second hard drive. And that was just one model, the Air. If you wanted an optical drive you could buy a white macbook or a MBP. Now there are no options.

athenot 10y ago

Right now I have a few DVI-thunderbolt dongles and they are ugly. If the new ports are about elegance, I wish Apple made dongles with long cables, so as to hide the adapter part.

BHSPitMonkey 10y ago

Judging by the external keyboard, is it safe to say this is a desk setup where everything but the laptop usually stays there? In such cases it's smarter to just have those things (and displays too) plugged into a USB Type-C hub/dock which only requires you to plug in a single cable when you come and go. Your current setup already requires you do (dis)connect four different cables every time you move, so you can't exactly defend it as more elegant.

IBM 10y ago

Is it elegant when your MBP that you'll keep for 4-6 years has USB-A ports you won't use anymore after two years? If Apple put in 2 USB-A and 2 USB-C, half the ports would probably be useless for the majority of the computer's lifespan.

pier25 10y ago
> you won't use anymore after two years? Probably more like 5 years at best. Removing all USB-A ports would have been a bold move in 2018, but in 2016 it's delusional.

outworlder 10y ago

Historically, Apple has always dropped declining tech, even if they were at their prime. See also Floppy Disks, dedicated keyboard/mouse ports, Firewire. This is not the issue. Using dongles is also not the issue. Having a versatile port is a good thing. The issue is that they seem to be neglecting common use cases in their own platform. As in, you cannot plug an iPhone to their own computer, not even to charge it. This is inexcusable. At the very least, they've lost control of timing (if the next iphone happens to have a USB-C port). > Right now, my $1,000 2012 Air has a charger, usb keyboard, usb phone charger, and a usb conference mic plugged into it. I don't even want to imagine carrying around the number of dongles that would allow me to do the same on a 2017 Pro machine. A single USB-C port can replace all that and more, you can also carry power and video. There's no reason why those can't be provided by a single "dongle". Which would actually be more convenient to carry around. Would it have killed Apple to include a USB-C to USB3 dongle? I can't believe their margins are that thin.

j2bax 10y ago
Maybe they have data to suggest that plugging an iPhone into your computer isn't a very common use case anymore. I personally haven't plugged my iPhone 6 into my computer more than once or twice since I got it two years ago. With iCloud backups I now just drop my phone on a dock or plug directly into the wall on a daily basis. Even at my desk at work I use a dock thats plugged into the wall vs. my computer. I don't want iTunes popping up, scanning my phone etc etc. every time I return to my desk and plug my phone in.
kenferry 10y ago
> you cannot plug an iPhone to their own computer, not even to charge it Am I just confused? A USB-C to lightning cable connects an iPhone to a new mac without a dongle, no? It's just a different cable than before.
- nicky0 10y ago
  It's not you that is confused.

nicky0 10y ago

You could probably do this with a single multi function adapter.