5 ms·

> there's one episode which I didn't finish as it just didn't interest me, it was the army-type episode, I got bored incredibly quickly. "Men Against Fire" was

by tintor 10y ago

> there's one episode which I didn't finish as it just didn't interest me, it was the army-type episode, I got bored incredibly quickly. "Men Against Fire" was the most disturbing episode of the season. Army with AR implants for zero-empathy ethnic cleansing.

unfunco 10y ago
I might try it again, it got to the point where they were visiting the man that was a sympathiser and I switched off. It felt a bit like Starship Troopers (that isn't bad I suppose) but I just wasn't captivated at the time.
- mordocai 10y ago
  You didn't even get into the meat of the episode. Edit Note: It is a very front-heavy(not sure what word to use there) episode.
- fredsir 10y ago
  Definitely watch the whole episode!
- eric_h 10y ago
  You most definitely missed the biggest thing about that episode. I agree it started slow/boring, but it goes to 100 in the blink of an eye. Edit: I thought I'd add that that episode did take me two tries (I fell asleep during the boring part the first time, but watched it again 'cause I had faith inspired by every other black mirror episode).
- zwily 10y ago
  Keep watching. Things are not what they seem.
- Nydhal 10y ago
  That seen reminded me of inglorious bastards beginning scene. It even has the same end where the girl runs away from the house while someone is trying to shoot at her.
tptacek 10y ago
There was a trailer a few years back with a bunch of 20-something white gamer dudes in some kind of dystopian future gamer den playing a CoD style shooter, which was in reality --- well, the same plot twist as "Men Against Fire". I thought (a) the trailer was much more evocative than the Man Against Fire episode, and (b) that it was possible that "Man Against Fire" borrowed its idea from that trailer. Later Found it! Uncanny Valley: https://vimeo.com/147365861 https://vimeo.com/147365861 I think this is both more plausible and more disturbing than "Men Against Fire". Also: the twist is less apparent --- for most of "Uncanny Valley" (if I'm remembering it clearly), you're not entirely sure whether it's a comment about how games generate dissipation the same way drugs do. "Men Against Fire" is predictable from about minute 10 (after the farm house scene). Another "Black Mirror" problem I have: the episodes are way too long. "San Junipero" is the only one --- of all the seasons, I think! --- that earned its running length.
- ddorian43 10y ago
  I thought he was gonna turn into them District-9 style.
- tedunangst 10y ago
  Then again, if episodes were 10 minutes each, I'm not sure I could handle watching for an hour. One story per "time slot" feels about right.
- pluma 10y ago
  Both UV and the BM episode strongly reminded me of an Outer Limits (I think?) episode about a perpetual war between humans and aliens in some underground cave. The reveal is pretty similar to that in Men Against Fire, except the justification is different.
  - tempestn 10y ago
    Haven't seen either of these yet, but the way you're describing them it sounds very reminiscent of Ender's Game too.
  - krabpaaltje 10y ago
tdkl 10y ago
The basic idea also isn't that novel, collective dehumanizing the enemy with using LSD on soldiers was quite a popular sport some decades ago.
- wavefunction 10y ago
  It didn't work with LSD though.
devonkim 10y ago
It got the dichotomy right - the solution for horrible things like PTSD also turned out to be justifying continuation of a horrific crime in its own right. The balance of how technology is amoral and how we use it as a society and for what agendas is illustrated in one of the better ways in this specific episode. The problem I had with the episode is similar to my complaint with all of season 3 - unnecessarily slow pacing and repetition. I'm not seeing the artistic reasons for repeating the same tired gestures in, say, the first episode unless they're more sentimental kind of episodes like San Junipero. The morality lessons that the Twilight Zone oftentimes preached are manifested more as debates in Black Mirror with season 3, which I think is a lot tougher to write successfully. What is a bit of a letdown is that the debates are mostly contemporary (PTSD wasn't even a term when the Twilight Zone was airing) and will date this specific episode heavily. Meanwhile, most of what I watched in the Twilight Zone is still very relevant from even a thought experiment perspective. I think I developed a lot more critical thinking watching Twilight Zone episodes as a child than anything I had to read in school.
- XorNot 10y ago
  Um, how would PTSD "date" an episode? The clinical term may be recent but it's not going to go away and it didn't just start - see reports of shellshock from WW1.
  - devonkim 10y ago
    PTSD being such a big and publicized topic is the difference today than from past wars. The topic of ethnic cleansing actually happening wasn't even a thought until years following WW2. The politics of war were pervasive in media much more than the conditions and microscopic effects upon those that are on the frontlines (all those war movies didn't exactly paint as grim of a picture as it was though thanks to pro-war sentiment by US leadership for decades).
    - lostlogin 10y ago
      >The topic of ethnic cleansing actually happening wasn't even a thought until after WW2. "Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians."
watt 10y ago
It's actually "genetic cleansing", if I understood the exposition right. Same like with "Shut up and dance", this twist a provides believable reason why some think what's going on is actually justifiable.

by tintor 10y ago

unfunco 10y ago

I might try it again, it got to the point where they were visiting the man that was a sympathiser and I switched off. It felt a bit like Starship Troopers (that isn't bad I suppose) but I just wasn't captivated at the time.

mordocai 10y ago
You didn't even get into the meat of the episode. Edit Note: It is a very front-heavy(not sure what word to use there) episode.
fredsir 10y ago
Definitely watch the whole episode!
eric_h 10y ago
You most definitely missed the biggest thing about that episode. I agree it started slow/boring, but it goes to 100 in the blink of an eye. Edit: I thought I'd add that that episode did take me two tries (I fell asleep during the boring part the first time, but watched it again 'cause I had faith inspired by every other black mirror episode).
zwily 10y ago
Keep watching. Things are not what they seem.
Nydhal 10y ago
That seen reminded me of inglorious bastards beginning scene. It even has the same end where the girl runs away from the house while someone is trying to shoot at her.

tptacek 10y ago

There was a trailer a few years back with a bunch of 20-something white gamer dudes in some kind of dystopian future gamer den playing a CoD style shooter, which was in reality --- well, the same plot twist as "Men Against Fire". I thought (a) the trailer was much more evocative than the Man Against Fire episode, and (b) that it was possible that "Man Against Fire" borrowed its idea from that trailer. Later Found it! Uncanny Valley: https://vimeo.com/147365861 https://vimeo.com/147365861 I think this is both more plausible and more disturbing than "Men Against Fire". Also: the twist is less apparent --- for most of "Uncanny Valley" (if I'm remembering it clearly), you're not entirely sure whether it's a comment about how games generate dissipation the same way drugs do. "Men Against Fire" is predictable from about minute 10 (after the farm house scene). Another "Black Mirror" problem I have: the episodes are way too long. "San Junipero" is the only one --- of all the seasons, I think! --- that earned its running length.

ddorian43 10y ago
I thought he was gonna turn into them District-9 style.
tedunangst 10y ago
Then again, if episodes were 10 minutes each, I'm not sure I could handle watching for an hour. One story per "time slot" feels about right.
pluma 10y ago
Both UV and the BM episode strongly reminded me of an Outer Limits (I think?) episode about a perpetual war between humans and aliens in some underground cave. The reveal is pretty similar to that in Men Against Fire, except the justification is different.
- tempestn 10y ago
  Haven't seen either of these yet, but the way you're describing them it sounds very reminiscent of Ender's Game too.
- krabpaaltje 10y ago

tdkl 10y ago

The basic idea also isn't that novel, collective dehumanizing the enemy with using LSD on soldiers was quite a popular sport some decades ago.

wavefunction 10y ago
It didn't work with LSD though.

devonkim 10y ago

It got the dichotomy right - the solution for horrible things like PTSD also turned out to be justifying continuation of a horrific crime in its own right. The balance of how technology is amoral and how we use it as a society and for what agendas is illustrated in one of the better ways in this specific episode. The problem I had with the episode is similar to my complaint with all of season 3 - unnecessarily slow pacing and repetition. I'm not seeing the artistic reasons for repeating the same tired gestures in, say, the first episode unless they're more sentimental kind of episodes like San Junipero. The morality lessons that the Twilight Zone oftentimes preached are manifested more as debates in Black Mirror with season 3, which I think is a lot tougher to write successfully. What is a bit of a letdown is that the debates are mostly contemporary (PTSD wasn't even a term when the Twilight Zone was airing) and will date this specific episode heavily. Meanwhile, most of what I watched in the Twilight Zone is still very relevant from even a thought experiment perspective. I think I developed a lot more critical thinking watching Twilight Zone episodes as a child than anything I had to read in school.

XorNot 10y ago
Um, how would PTSD "date" an episode? The clinical term may be recent but it's not going to go away and it didn't just start - see reports of shellshock from WW1.
- devonkim 10y ago
  PTSD being such a big and publicized topic is the difference today than from past wars. The topic of ethnic cleansing actually happening wasn't even a thought until years following WW2. The politics of war were pervasive in media much more than the conditions and microscopic effects upon those that are on the frontlines (all those war movies didn't exactly paint as grim of a picture as it was though thanks to pro-war sentiment by US leadership for decades).
  - lostlogin 10y ago
    >The topic of ethnic cleansing actually happening wasn't even a thought until after WW2. "Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians."

watt 10y ago

It's actually "genetic cleansing", if I understood the exposition right. Same like with "Shut up and dance", this twist a provides believable reason why some think what's going on is actually justifiable.