5 ms·

To me, the third episode (Shut up and dance) is the outstanding episode, at the end I was mentally exhausted and incredibly saddened. San Junipero is different,

by unfunco 10y ago

To me, the third episode (Shut up and dance) is the outstanding episode, at the end I was mentally exhausted and incredibly saddened. San Junipero is different, without ruining things, it's the only episode where at the end, I wasn't considering the "where" that we're heading towards as a society (though on further thinking, it's a question of whether something good is also something moral.) – It's just very different in overall tone. The first episode I found really difficult to watch because it felt too much like real-life (Uber, especially.) – there's one episode which I didn't finish as it just didn't interest me, it was the army-type episode, I got bored incredibly quickly. The last episode (which is set on Twitter, I suppose) is incredible. I think there were maybe too many episodes, the VR episode, whilst good, just felt like filler to me, though it made me phone my mother. I'll watch the fourth season, it's still one of the better shows on television.

alextheparrot 10y ago
I've been having difficulty rating my uber drivers lately, given that I feel like I'm being pushed into participating much like the characters in the show. Seeing the "I can't drive if my rating is below 4.7" signs doesn't help either. "Shut up and dance" was definitely my favorite episode of the seasons for the emotions you listed.
tintor 10y ago
> there's one episode which I didn't finish as it just didn't interest me, it was the army-type episode, I got bored incredibly quickly. "Men Against Fire" was the most disturbing episode of the season. Army with AR implants for zero-empathy ethnic cleansing.
- unfunco 10y ago
  I might try it again, it got to the point where they were visiting the man that was a sympathiser and I switched off. It felt a bit like Starship Troopers (that isn't bad I suppose) but I just wasn't captivated at the time.
  - mordocai 10y ago
    You didn't even get into the meat of the episode. Edit Note: It is a very front-heavy(not sure what word to use there) episode.
  - fredsir 10y ago
    Definitely watch the whole episode!
  - eric_h 10y ago
    You most definitely missed the biggest thing about that episode. I agree it started slow/boring, but it goes to 100 in the blink of an eye. Edit: I thought I'd add that that episode did take me two tries (I fell asleep during the boring part the first time, but watched it again 'cause I had faith inspired by every other black mirror episode).
  - zwily 10y ago
    Keep watching. Things are not what they seem.
  - Nydhal 10y ago
    That seen reminded me of inglorious bastards beginning scene. It even has the same end where the girl runs away from the house while someone is trying to shoot at her.
- tptacek 10y ago
  There was a trailer a few years back with a bunch of 20-something white gamer dudes in some kind of dystopian future gamer den playing a CoD style shooter, which was in reality --- well, the same plot twist as "Men Against Fire". I thought (a) the trailer was much more evocative than the Man Against Fire episode, and (b) that it was possible that "Man Against Fire" borrowed its idea from that trailer. Later Found it! Uncanny Valley: https://vimeo.com/147365861 https://vimeo.com/147365861 I think this is both more plausible and more disturbing than "Men Against Fire". Also: the twist is less apparent --- for most of "Uncanny Valley" (if I'm remembering it clearly), you're not entirely sure whether it's a comment about how games generate dissipation the same way drugs do. "Men Against Fire" is predictable from about minute 10 (after the farm house scene). Another "Black Mirror" problem I have: the episodes are way too long. "San Junipero" is the only one --- of all the seasons, I think! --- that earned its running length.
  - ddorian43 10y ago
    I thought he was gonna turn into them District-9 style.
  - tedunangst 10y ago
    Then again, if episodes were 10 minutes each, I'm not sure I could handle watching for an hour. One story per "time slot" feels about right.
  - pluma 10y ago
    Both UV and the BM episode strongly reminded me of an Outer Limits (I think?) episode about a perpetual war between humans and aliens in some underground cave. The reveal is pretty similar to that in Men Against Fire, except the justification is different.
    - tempestn 10y ago
      Haven't seen either of these yet, but the way you're describing them it sounds very reminiscent of Ender's Game too.
    - krabpaaltje 10y ago
- tdkl 10y ago
  The basic idea also isn't that novel, collective dehumanizing the enemy with using LSD on soldiers was quite a popular sport some decades ago.
  - wavefunction 10y ago
    It didn't work with LSD though.
- devonkim 10y ago
  It got the dichotomy right - the solution for horrible things like PTSD also turned out to be justifying continuation of a horrific crime in its own right. The balance of how technology is amoral and how we use it as a society and for what agendas is illustrated in one of the better ways in this specific episode. The problem I had with the episode is similar to my complaint with all of season 3 - unnecessarily slow pacing and repetition. I'm not seeing the artistic reasons for repeating the same tired gestures in, say, the first episode unless they're more sentimental kind of episodes like San Junipero. The morality lessons that the Twilight Zone oftentimes preached are manifested more as debates in Black Mirror with season 3, which I think is a lot tougher to write successfully. What is a bit of a letdown is that the debates are mostly contemporary (PTSD wasn't even a term when the Twilight Zone was airing) and will date this specific episode heavily. Meanwhile, most of what I watched in the Twilight Zone is still very relevant from even a thought experiment perspective. I think I developed a lot more critical thinking watching Twilight Zone episodes as a child than anything I had to read in school.
  - XorNot 10y ago
    Um, how would PTSD "date" an episode? The clinical term may be recent but it's not going to go away and it didn't just start - see reports of shellshock from WW1.
    - devonkim 10y ago
      PTSD being such a big and publicized topic is the difference today than from past wars. The topic of ethnic cleansing actually happening wasn't even a thought until years following WW2. The politics of war were pervasive in media much more than the conditions and microscopic effects upon those that are on the frontlines (all those war movies didn't exactly paint as grim of a picture as it was though thanks to pro-war sentiment by US leadership for decades).
      - lostlogin 10y ago
        >The topic of ethnic cleansing actually happening wasn't even a thought until after WW2. "Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians."
- watt 10y ago
  It's actually "genetic cleansing", if I understood the exposition right. Same like with "Shut up and dance", this twist a provides believable reason why some think what's going on is actually justifiable.
alvern 10y ago
The Twitter-death-drone episode could have been a stand alone movie. Everything in that story and execution was polished and well put together. The pacing was fantastic compared to the others in the bunch.
- unfunco 10y ago
  Absolutely, I thought the same thing – it was the longest of the episodes, and although you see that text message at the end, it's still open-ended – it might be the first episode that could be revisited at some point?
  - devonkim 10y ago
    The moral message was lost it seems - the viewer's gut reaction to persecute the supposed antagonist now is part of the critique. Wishing for his death despite his deeds is not necessarily justice and a failure to understand his motives. Is it any better we judge and execute in secret than in public?
lsh123 10y ago
The "army" episode is actually a very good one. Also VR and government/army way of doing things. The ending is really not what I expected though.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
vadym909 10y ago
its boring right until before the end. Worth it to stick around if you haven't read the plot
unfunco 10y ago
I've just finished watching the "Men Against Fire" episode, due to feedback, to me; it's still the weakest of the bunch, but probably because it seems the most implausible, every episode of Black Mirror previously has made me question my own black mirror, and whether it's a good or bad decision to own one. This episode specifically is too detached from my own day to day choices to have had the impact it's meant to have, and I know about and have read in detail about eugenics (which is what I think this episode is alluding to) – but to me, it's the most unrealistic, and that's why I've made my decision. It reminded me of Die Jugend Marschiert though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLHFN6ynLgg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLHFN6ynLgg
- xenobioticants 10y ago
  Eugenics are not evil and would rid the world of many terrible, terrible hereditary diseases. However, the way to get it out of humanity should be done by the 'soft' way, not with violence.
  - lostlogin 10y ago
    I understood eugenics to be defined by a push to get desired people to reproduce more and undesirable ones to reproduce less? This seems quite different to things like gene testing and embryo selection which aren't as easily abused.
    - xenobioticants 10y ago
      Those things are equivalent, only in the first case you do it retroactively instead of proactively. Hell, if gene modification becomes advanced enough you could even let people with hereditary diseases just reproduce and 'edit' the created embryo so it doesn't have said hereditary genes.
      - lostlogin 10y ago
        It's not quite like this but people with Huntingdon's can have embryos tested and healthy ones implanted so that their kids don't have Huntingdon's. This Nature article describes the process in 2002. www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v10/n10/full/5200865a.html

by unfunco 10y ago

alextheparrot 10y ago

I've been having difficulty rating my uber drivers lately, given that I feel like I'm being pushed into participating much like the characters in the show. Seeing the "I can't drive if my rating is below 4.7" signs doesn't help either. "Shut up and dance" was definitely my favorite episode of the seasons for the emotions you listed.

tintor 10y ago

> there's one episode which I didn't finish as it just didn't interest me, it was the army-type episode, I got bored incredibly quickly. "Men Against Fire" was the most disturbing episode of the season. Army with AR implants for zero-empathy ethnic cleansing.

unfunco 10y ago
I might try it again, it got to the point where they were visiting the man that was a sympathiser and I switched off. It felt a bit like Starship Troopers (that isn't bad I suppose) but I just wasn't captivated at the time.
- mordocai 10y ago
  You didn't even get into the meat of the episode. Edit Note: It is a very front-heavy(not sure what word to use there) episode.
- fredsir 10y ago
  Definitely watch the whole episode!
- eric_h 10y ago
  You most definitely missed the biggest thing about that episode. I agree it started slow/boring, but it goes to 100 in the blink of an eye. Edit: I thought I'd add that that episode did take me two tries (I fell asleep during the boring part the first time, but watched it again 'cause I had faith inspired by every other black mirror episode).
- zwily 10y ago
  Keep watching. Things are not what they seem.
- Nydhal 10y ago
  That seen reminded me of inglorious bastards beginning scene. It even has the same end where the girl runs away from the house while someone is trying to shoot at her.
tptacek 10y ago
There was a trailer a few years back with a bunch of 20-something white gamer dudes in some kind of dystopian future gamer den playing a CoD style shooter, which was in reality --- well, the same plot twist as "Men Against Fire". I thought (a) the trailer was much more evocative than the Man Against Fire episode, and (b) that it was possible that "Man Against Fire" borrowed its idea from that trailer. Later Found it! Uncanny Valley: https://vimeo.com/147365861 https://vimeo.com/147365861 I think this is both more plausible and more disturbing than "Men Against Fire". Also: the twist is less apparent --- for most of "Uncanny Valley" (if I'm remembering it clearly), you're not entirely sure whether it's a comment about how games generate dissipation the same way drugs do. "Men Against Fire" is predictable from about minute 10 (after the farm house scene). Another "Black Mirror" problem I have: the episodes are way too long. "San Junipero" is the only one --- of all the seasons, I think! --- that earned its running length.
- ddorian43 10y ago
  I thought he was gonna turn into them District-9 style.
- tedunangst 10y ago
  Then again, if episodes were 10 minutes each, I'm not sure I could handle watching for an hour. One story per "time slot" feels about right.
- pluma 10y ago
  Both UV and the BM episode strongly reminded me of an Outer Limits (I think?) episode about a perpetual war between humans and aliens in some underground cave. The reveal is pretty similar to that in Men Against Fire, except the justification is different.
  - tempestn 10y ago
    Haven't seen either of these yet, but the way you're describing them it sounds very reminiscent of Ender's Game too.
  - krabpaaltje 10y ago
tdkl 10y ago
The basic idea also isn't that novel, collective dehumanizing the enemy with using LSD on soldiers was quite a popular sport some decades ago.
- wavefunction 10y ago
  It didn't work with LSD though.
devonkim 10y ago
It got the dichotomy right - the solution for horrible things like PTSD also turned out to be justifying continuation of a horrific crime in its own right. The balance of how technology is amoral and how we use it as a society and for what agendas is illustrated in one of the better ways in this specific episode. The problem I had with the episode is similar to my complaint with all of season 3 - unnecessarily slow pacing and repetition. I'm not seeing the artistic reasons for repeating the same tired gestures in, say, the first episode unless they're more sentimental kind of episodes like San Junipero. The morality lessons that the Twilight Zone oftentimes preached are manifested more as debates in Black Mirror with season 3, which I think is a lot tougher to write successfully. What is a bit of a letdown is that the debates are mostly contemporary (PTSD wasn't even a term when the Twilight Zone was airing) and will date this specific episode heavily. Meanwhile, most of what I watched in the Twilight Zone is still very relevant from even a thought experiment perspective. I think I developed a lot more critical thinking watching Twilight Zone episodes as a child than anything I had to read in school.
- XorNot 10y ago
  Um, how would PTSD "date" an episode? The clinical term may be recent but it's not going to go away and it didn't just start - see reports of shellshock from WW1.
  - devonkim 10y ago
    PTSD being such a big and publicized topic is the difference today than from past wars. The topic of ethnic cleansing actually happening wasn't even a thought until years following WW2. The politics of war were pervasive in media much more than the conditions and microscopic effects upon those that are on the frontlines (all those war movies didn't exactly paint as grim of a picture as it was though thanks to pro-war sentiment by US leadership for decades).
    - lostlogin 10y ago
      >The topic of ethnic cleansing actually happening wasn't even a thought until after WW2. "Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians."
watt 10y ago
It's actually "genetic cleansing", if I understood the exposition right. Same like with "Shut up and dance", this twist a provides believable reason why some think what's going on is actually justifiable.

alvern 10y ago

The Twitter-death-drone episode could have been a stand alone movie. Everything in that story and execution was polished and well put together. The pacing was fantastic compared to the others in the bunch.

unfunco 10y ago
Absolutely, I thought the same thing – it was the longest of the episodes, and although you see that text message at the end, it's still open-ended – it might be the first episode that could be revisited at some point?
- devonkim 10y ago
  The moral message was lost it seems - the viewer's gut reaction to persecute the supposed antagonist now is part of the critique. Wishing for his death despite his deeds is not necessarily justice and a failure to understand his motives. Is it any better we judge and execute in secret than in public?

lsh123 10y ago

The "army" episode is actually a very good one. Also VR and government/army way of doing things. The ending is really not what I expected though.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

vadym909 10y ago

its boring right until before the end. Worth it to stick around if you haven't read the plot

unfunco 10y ago

I've just finished watching the "Men Against Fire" episode, due to feedback, to me; it's still the weakest of the bunch, but probably because it seems the most implausible, every episode of Black Mirror previously has made me question my own black mirror, and whether it's a good or bad decision to own one. This episode specifically is too detached from my own day to day choices to have had the impact it's meant to have, and I know about and have read in detail about eugenics (which is what I think this episode is alluding to) – but to me, it's the most unrealistic, and that's why I've made my decision. It reminded me of Die Jugend Marschiert though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLHFN6ynLgg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLHFN6ynLgg

xenobioticants 10y ago
Eugenics are not evil and would rid the world of many terrible, terrible hereditary diseases. However, the way to get it out of humanity should be done by the 'soft' way, not with violence.
- lostlogin 10y ago
  I understood eugenics to be defined by a push to get desired people to reproduce more and undesirable ones to reproduce less? This seems quite different to things like gene testing and embryo selection which aren't as easily abused.
  - xenobioticants 10y ago
    Those things are equivalent, only in the first case you do it retroactively instead of proactively. Hell, if gene modification becomes advanced enough you could even let people with hereditary diseases just reproduce and 'edit' the created embryo so it doesn't have said hereditary genes.
    - lostlogin 10y ago
      It's not quite like this but people with Huntingdon's can have embryos tested and healthy ones implanted so that their kids don't have Huntingdon's. This Nature article describes the process in 2002. www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v10/n10/full/5200865a.html