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This is the big missing piece with basic income: People need meaning in their lives as much as they need money.

by orasis 10y ago

jordanlev 10y ago
I am not very knowledgable about basic income and don't (yet) have a strong opinion one way or the other on it. But, in my understanding, the idea is that not having to worry about meeting one's basic needs then frees them up to do things that are more meaningful with their lives. As a gainfully-employed programmer, this doesn't really fit my current life situation (because there is bountiful well-paying work that is fulfilling to me)... but I can understand how people who are not in as fortunate a situation might have to sacrifice a lot of time and energy towards unfulfilling jobs which leave them without the ability to pursue more meaningful goals. Maybe, maybe not... but certainly worth some experimentation.
iza 10y ago
Personally I do not feel my job adds meaning to my life. In fact it deprives me of the time and energy to pursue the meaningful things I actually want to do.
- tempodox 10y ago
  I have a similar view (although protestant work ethics would probably disagree), and while a basic income will not provide meaning (nor is it supposed to), “primum edere deinde philosophari” is still true. Any pursuit of meaning would be literally meaningless if we go hungry every day.
white-flame 10y ago
Meaning has next to nothing to do with income and sustenance. Problems with those can easily distract you from the very concept of stepping back and looking at meaning to your life. Excess of those can be their own burden as well. Some sort of basic income really doesn't change much at all, besides helping to remove distractions from the destitute to be freer to pursuing meaning.
- orasis 10y ago
  For most people, meaning has a lot to do with value creation. Corporations are institutions for value creation. If most people were equipped to create value on their own we'd see a lot more entrepreneurs. Don't get me wrong, I think we'll need BI, but it won't be enough.
  - white-flame 10y ago
    "Most people"? For one, there's a huge rate of unhappiness among those who have created vast value, and on the flip side a ton of people giving up on finding meaning in such metrics to better find their own meaning in spiritual, humanitarian, or personal niche pursuits. I think it has a lot more to do with the act of creating something yourself, not necessarily the "value" of what's being created. I'd say especially so when corporations and such are involved, and especially regarding non-owners.
akvadrako 10y ago
It seems like you're halfway to understanding why basic income is a good solution. The most common objection to BI is that people won't be incentivised to work. But as you point out, they still want to feel appreciated. So people will have to work to find meaning and it will be better than now, because it will have to be meaningful work, not just busy work.
- humanrebar 10y ago
  > ...and it will be better than now... Will it? What if someone's "meaningful work" is destructive, hateful, or even violent? Will giving abusive people more freedom to pursue their inner desires make for a better world?

This is the big missing piece with basic income: People need meaning in their lives as much as they need money.

by orasis 10y ago

This is the big missing piece with basic income: People need meaning in their lives as much as they need money.

I am not very knowledgable about basic income and don't (yet) have a strong opinion one way or the other on it. But, in my understanding, the idea is that not having to worry about meeting one's basic needs then frees them up to do things that are more meaningful with their lives. As a gainfully-employed programmer, this doesn't really fit my current life situation (because there is bountiful well-paying work that is fulfilling to me)... but I can understand how people who are not in as fortunate a situation might have to sacrifice a lot of time and energy towards unfulfilling jobs which leave them without the ability to pursue more meaningful goals. Maybe, maybe not... but certainly worth some experimentation.

iza 10y ago

Personally I do not feel my job adds meaning to my life. In fact it deprives me of the time and energy to pursue the meaningful things I actually want to do.

tempodox 10y ago
I have a similar view (although protestant work ethics would probably disagree), and while a basic income will not provide meaning (nor is it supposed to), “primum edere deinde philosophari” is still true. Any pursuit of meaning would be literally meaningless if we go hungry every day.

white-flame 10y ago

Meaning has next to nothing to do with income and sustenance. Problems with those can easily distract you from the very concept of stepping back and looking at meaning to your life. Excess of those can be their own burden as well. Some sort of basic income really doesn't change much at all, besides helping to remove distractions from the destitute to be freer to pursuing meaning.

orasis 10y ago
For most people, meaning has a lot to do with value creation. Corporations are institutions for value creation. If most people were equipped to create value on their own we'd see a lot more entrepreneurs. Don't get me wrong, I think we'll need BI, but it won't be enough.
- white-flame 10y ago
  "Most people"? For one, there's a huge rate of unhappiness among those who have created vast value, and on the flip side a ton of people giving up on finding meaning in such metrics to better find their own meaning in spiritual, humanitarian, or personal niche pursuits. I think it has a lot more to do with the act of creating something yourself, not necessarily the "value" of what's being created. I'd say especially so when corporations and such are involved, and especially regarding non-owners.

akvadrako 10y ago

It seems like you're halfway to understanding why basic income is a good solution. The most common objection to BI is that people won't be incentivised to work. But as you point out, they still want to feel appreciated. So people will have to work to find meaning and it will be better than now, because it will have to be meaningful work, not just busy work.

humanrebar 10y ago
> ...and it will be better than now... Will it? What if someone's "meaningful work" is destructive, hateful, or even violent? Will giving abusive people more freedom to pursue their inner desires make for a better world?