9 ms·

Turkey blocks social media again to stall protests, here’s how to access them

93 points by endswapper 10y ago

rch 10y ago
Keep in mind this is a government we're currently selling weapons to: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-lockheed-fighter-turkey-idUSKCN12S2G1?il=0 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-lockheed-fighter-turkey-id...
- simonsarris 10y ago
  Presumably the US is selling/arming Kurds that are rebelling against the regime, too. This was one of the emails released yesterday, though it is dated 2014: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/43648#efmAtVAz1 https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/43648#efmAtVAz1 >> On Aug 17, 2014 3:50 PM, "H" <hrod17@clintonemail.com> wrote: >>> 3. In the past the USG, in an agreement with the Turkish General Staff, >>> did not provide such heavy weapons to the Peshmerga, out of a concern that >>> they would end up in the hands of Kurdish rebels inside of Turkey. The >>> current situation in Iraq, not to mention the political environment in >>> Turkey, makes this policy obsolete. Also this equipment can now be >>> airlifted directly into the KRG zone. Point 5. is missing from that email, for whatever reason.
  - frandroid 10y ago
    The KRG, despite being Kurds, are besties with the Turkish government (a pipeline going out of Iraqi Kurdistan exports oil through Turkey), and rather at loggerheads with the PKK (Kurdish rebels in Turkey), so there's little chance of the weapons passing from the KRG to the PKK.
    - simonsarris 10y ago
      This is good context, thanks.
- atakurt 10y ago
  yeah ,keep going keeping in mind , what were you doing with weapons at afghanistan , iraq , vietnam ? spreading democracy ?
- pjc50 10y ago
  Well, they're in NATO and the crucial barrier between the "West" on one side and Syria & Russia on the other.
pgtruesdell 10y ago
Turkey's current political climate is endemic of the region. It's a molotov cocktail waiting for a lighter.
- toyg 10y ago
  Technically it's already been lit, it's just not as big a fire as it could be. I mean: Turkey is at war, Russia is at war, Saudi Arabia is at war, Qatar is at war, NATO is at war, Syria is a warzone, Iraq is a warzone... we're lucky the big guns are somewhat not pointed at each other, which would literally be WW3, but the area is already burning alright.
jwtadvice 10y ago
Also take a look through the AKP Party's emails, which led to the discovery of a backchannel between Erdogan and Assad (and subsequently) the recent Turkish military coup attempt: https://wikileaks.org/akp-emails/ https://wikileaks.org/akp-emails/
- acqq 10y ago
  > backchannel between Erdogan and Assad Can you elaborate on this? There are 300,000 emails behind your link. Backchannels aren't necessarily bad. The communication on various levels is necessary even between the countries that at are at war. And, to my knowledge, only the US and the Sunni oil countries are basically against Assad, the EU is just acknowledging whatever the US wills.
  - jwtadvice 10y ago
    Turkey (presumably) cut all diplomatic ties with Syria in September 2011. Pekin (former head of the Turkish Military Intelligence) and other high level officials had a backchannel to Assad for the administration, and were associated with parties and policies that had been trying to normalize relations between the countries. This was discovered the week of the military coup attempt.
    - acqq 10y ago
      > Pekin (former head of the Turkish Military Intelligence) and other high level officials had a backchannel to Assad for the administration, and were associated with parties and policies that had been trying to normalize relations between the countries So? Why do you point to this? Is this a proof that Erdogan is right to do what he does? Or is this a proof of Erdogan not supporting the US or other Sunni countries enough? What? The US ambassador cable from 2006 showing the US planning to destabilize the Syrian government by any means available and that the US will work to increase Sunni-Shia sectarianism in Syria, also via Wikileaks: https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06DAMASCUS5399_a.html https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06DAMASCUS5399_a.html Note, Assad and his closest forces are Alawite (Shia), Iran is Shia, but ISIS, al-Qaeda, Turkey (thanks to Erdogan continuously more Islamic), Saudis and Muslim Brotherhood are Sunnis. Assad's interest was always freedom of religion, as Alawite were minority in Syria: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Syria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Syria
finid 10y ago
Erdogan is trying to stall protests, but protesters saved his rear end just a few months ago.
msc1 10y ago
there are multiple reports of cable internet subscribers' speed is downgraded to 1,44 mbps. http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/5771998066 http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/5771998066
- plandis 10y ago
  Surely 1.44 Mbps is enough bandwidth to access Twitter in a timely manner unless that bandwidth is heavily over-subscribed.
sickbeard 10y ago
blah blah blah. The people of Turkey have stood meekly by while an authoritarian has has turned their democracy into a quasi-dictatorship.
- sctb 10y ago
  You can't whip out such insults against an entire country here. It's neither civil nor substantive, which is the kind of discussion we're trying to have. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - sickbeard 10y ago
    The people of Turkey stood by him, just like people in Phillipines standby Duterte and Russians with Putin. It's not an insult, more like a statement of fact. If on Nov 8th the USA elects Trump as president then so be it. That's what they want too.
    - sepeth 10y ago
      Do you really think that it is that simple?
      - sickbeard 10y ago
        Of course not, but when the democratic process is used to vote in people who don't respect it there's not much you can do but respect the will of the people.
    - sctb 10y ago
      > The people of Turkey have stood meekly by... I'm sorry, but this is not a factual statement. Please stop.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
ysleepy 10y ago
Seems like a good time for the technical community to reassess its contribution to the situation and how we can do better. How were communication services used by individuals and the state? Did the threat model encompass the seen actions and techniques? Which companies collaborated? I see a lot of responsibility on our side to do better.
throwawayfromtr 10y ago
It is pretty clear now that the Turkey's Islamic government was behind the fake coup. They have used this to hit all of their opposition without worrying about laws (state of emergency = do whatever you want) 1. Complete clear all Gulen cult members from their infiltrated state positions 2. Hit secular Turks (Cumhuriyet newspaper behind bars this week) 3. Hit Kurdish opposition ( Kurdish party members behind bars this week) Now that they are fighting in three big fronts. There is no way for them to succeed. On the other hand, if they win, this is the end of the secular, democratic Turkish Republic (which pretty much eroded on all those counts since the Islamic party came the power)
- cm3 10y ago
  > overnment was behind the fake coup. Has this been proven yet? I'm under the impression that we're still in the stages of better not believing any side of the arguments because any secrets - if they exist - will be fresh and well hidden for the moment. If you ask me, I would be very careful claiming to know who orchestrated what.
- prefect42 10y ago
  What is a "Islamic party"? Turkey is something like 96% Muslim population, so chances are, any particular cross section of society might just be called "Islamic" something, including the government.
  - pjc50 10y ago
    Confusion between "Islamic" and "Islamist" here I think; the first simply has Islam as a religion and the second uses it as a hammer. Compare Germany's Christian Democrats (the former) and, say, Pat Buchanan (the latter).
  - gkya 10y ago
    That 96% is the amount of people registered as Muslims, and the religion status are registered at birth as parents declare. Further, who's not a registered Christian or Jewish is considered a Muslim by default. So that 96% includes: atheists, converts to religions other than those of book (Islam, Christianity, Judaism), Alawites (10 million of them, and Turkey's population is 70million), secularists and the non practising Muslims (edit: i.e. who are only nominally Muslim because parents are).
cm3 10y ago
Genuinely curious, only serious answers, please: can someone living in Turkey explain how the government can justify ordering a ban while publicly using Twitter themselves? What am I missing?
- zubi 10y ago
  They are not "banning" in the sense of disallowing or prohibiting. They just slow it down to the point where it is no more usable. Media is only as good as they serve to the needs of the government. As for the justification, nowadays they don't really justify anything, they just do, and it doesn't matter if it is unlawful or not. Especially after the coup attempt, there's this state of emergency situation which allows the government to bypass the parliament which pretty much translates to no justification for anything, capability is enough and it is not difficult to find stuff to use as pretext. Many of the government's recent actions are gross violations of constitution and several other laws, all possible due to the emergency status.
  - ozgung 10y ago
    Exactly. The real answer to the question is: they don't care and they don't need to explain anything
- brian_cloutier 10y ago
  To add to the other answer you received, Turkey was in the habit of blocking social media after things like bombings well before the state of emergency was announced. A bombing just happened, which could explain this current round of blocks: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/04/asia/turkey-kurdish-leaders/index.html http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/04/asia/turkey-kurdish-leader... I'm reading from this site: http://www.amerikaninsesi.com/a/internet-erisiminin-yavaslatilmasi-yasaya-aykiri-mi/3397116.html http://www.amerikaninsesi.com/a/internet-erisiminin-yavaslat... (sorry for the Turkish) The official power comes from a statue which allows restricting communication when "made necessary for national security purposes or a situation arises which might seriously impact social order", this was the justification for blocking after the bombing at Ataturk airport. People sharing videos and images of attacks is not good for the public morale, and that's ostensibly such an important concern that it merits blocking social media. This current round of blocks has suspicious timing and extent but as my sibling points out, it's a state of emergency, they don't need justification.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
sctblol 10y ago
I wonder how many people there agree with such blocks, etc. I am a crypto-fascist myself, and I can understand and respect this kind of stuff when we are talking about maintaining order of the law, and I also imagine that a big % of Turkey (maybe even double digit) want this. We simply have a different culture here, where freedom > *. They are very very different there, and making judgements (such as "nobody would ever want twitter to be blocked") can be very wrong.
- ozgung 10y ago
  > I also imagine that a big % of Turkey (maybe even double digit) want this. I'd say between 20 to 40%. They would support anything the government wants.
mustafaucar87 10y ago
As a Turkish, there are so much hate going into most of the people's comments going on here. I am a Turkish citizen and i live there so without the actual experience, most of the things said here is not true and heavily biased. The people that got arrested last night were actively tied to terrorist organization called PKK and execute under their command. How would you feel there was a senator in your country representing such terrorist organization and continue to do so because he was untouchable because he was elected? How would you feel you left you house or dorm scared that you would be blown into pieces on your way to school or some errand etc? Those people are widely connected and their supporters are trying to organize violent acts via social media. Another thing is Turkey is %90+ muslim so It is very odd that people call Erdogan islamist. So what? It is a muslim country. People actually voted for him(including myself and most of the people i know). It is peoples beliefs. You dont say things about Obama or Bush 'Oh he is a Christian Leader' every time you have a conversation that has a negative context.
- ozgung 10y ago
  Thanks Mr. Government supporting PR account. People ilke you are the main reason we are ashamed of and hopeless about our own country. And if you are serious, definitely we are not living in the same country. I envy you. BTW, Islamist does not mean Muslim. It's a political ideology. And it's not a democratic one. Erdogan is definitely an Islamist politician. Edit: And Kurdish politicians and their leader are not terrorists at all. They have never been considered as terrorists since today. Only reason they are on target now is because Erdogan is obsessed with changing the regime and becoming the president while Kurdish party hinders that. The truth in Turkey is as simple as this.
  - mustafaucar87 10y ago
    Yes i support my government. I am not going to be ashamed of it and proudly continue to do so. May be you should start supporting it too instead backing a situation where it is about fighting against a terrorist organization.
  - Freestyler_3 10y ago
gkya 10y ago
A must watch: 3 rules for rulers from CGP Grey on YouTube. 20 mins, talks about how authoritarian regimes function. Sheds light on why all these stuff happens the world over.

93 points by endswapper 10y ago

rch 10y ago

Keep in mind this is a government we're currently selling weapons to: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-lockheed-fighter-turkey-idUSKCN12S2G1?il=0 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-lockheed-fighter-turkey-id...

simonsarris 10y ago
Presumably the US is selling/arming Kurds that are rebelling against the regime, too. This was one of the emails released yesterday, though it is dated 2014: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/43648#efmAtVAz1 https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/43648#efmAtVAz1 >> On Aug 17, 2014 3:50 PM, "H" <hrod17@clintonemail.com> wrote: >>> 3. In the past the USG, in an agreement with the Turkish General Staff, >>> did not provide such heavy weapons to the Peshmerga, out of a concern that >>> they would end up in the hands of Kurdish rebels inside of Turkey. The >>> current situation in Iraq, not to mention the political environment in >>> Turkey, makes this policy obsolete. Also this equipment can now be >>> airlifted directly into the KRG zone. Point 5. is missing from that email, for whatever reason.
- frandroid 10y ago
  The KRG, despite being Kurds, are besties with the Turkish government (a pipeline going out of Iraqi Kurdistan exports oil through Turkey), and rather at loggerheads with the PKK (Kurdish rebels in Turkey), so there's little chance of the weapons passing from the KRG to the PKK.
  - simonsarris 10y ago
    This is good context, thanks.
atakurt 10y ago
yeah ,keep going keeping in mind , what were you doing with weapons at afghanistan , iraq , vietnam ? spreading democracy ?
pjc50 10y ago
Well, they're in NATO and the crucial barrier between the "West" on one side and Syria & Russia on the other.

pgtruesdell 10y ago

Turkey's current political climate is endemic of the region. It's a molotov cocktail waiting for a lighter.

toyg 10y ago
Technically it's already been lit, it's just not as big a fire as it could be. I mean: Turkey is at war, Russia is at war, Saudi Arabia is at war, Qatar is at war, NATO is at war, Syria is a warzone, Iraq is a warzone... we're lucky the big guns are somewhat not pointed at each other, which would literally be WW3, but the area is already burning alright.

jwtadvice 10y ago

Also take a look through the AKP Party's emails, which led to the discovery of a backchannel between Erdogan and Assad (and subsequently) the recent Turkish military coup attempt: https://wikileaks.org/akp-emails/ https://wikileaks.org/akp-emails/

acqq 10y ago
> backchannel between Erdogan and Assad Can you elaborate on this? There are 300,000 emails behind your link. Backchannels aren't necessarily bad. The communication on various levels is necessary even between the countries that at are at war. And, to my knowledge, only the US and the Sunni oil countries are basically against Assad, the EU is just acknowledging whatever the US wills.
- jwtadvice 10y ago
  Turkey (presumably) cut all diplomatic ties with Syria in September 2011. Pekin (former head of the Turkish Military Intelligence) and other high level officials had a backchannel to Assad for the administration, and were associated with parties and policies that had been trying to normalize relations between the countries. This was discovered the week of the military coup attempt.
  - acqq 10y ago
    > Pekin (former head of the Turkish Military Intelligence) and other high level officials had a backchannel to Assad for the administration, and were associated with parties and policies that had been trying to normalize relations between the countries So? Why do you point to this? Is this a proof that Erdogan is right to do what he does? Or is this a proof of Erdogan not supporting the US or other Sunni countries enough? What? The US ambassador cable from 2006 showing the US planning to destabilize the Syrian government by any means available and that the US will work to increase Sunni-Shia sectarianism in Syria, also via Wikileaks: https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06DAMASCUS5399_a.html https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06DAMASCUS5399_a.html Note, Assad and his closest forces are Alawite (Shia), Iran is Shia, but ISIS, al-Qaeda, Turkey (thanks to Erdogan continuously more Islamic), Saudis and Muslim Brotherhood are Sunnis. Assad's interest was always freedom of religion, as Alawite were minority in Syria: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Syria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Syria

finid 10y ago

Erdogan is trying to stall protests, but protesters saved his rear end just a few months ago.

msc1 10y ago

there are multiple reports of cable internet subscribers' speed is downgraded to 1,44 mbps. http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/5771998066 http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/5771998066

plandis 10y ago
Surely 1.44 Mbps is enough bandwidth to access Twitter in a timely manner unless that bandwidth is heavily over-subscribed.

sickbeard 10y ago

blah blah blah. The people of Turkey have stood meekly by while an authoritarian has has turned their democracy into a quasi-dictatorship.

sctb 10y ago
You can't whip out such insults against an entire country here. It's neither civil nor substantive, which is the kind of discussion we're trying to have. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- sickbeard 10y ago
  The people of Turkey stood by him, just like people in Phillipines standby Duterte and Russians with Putin. It's not an insult, more like a statement of fact. If on Nov 8th the USA elects Trump as president then so be it. That's what they want too.
  - sepeth 10y ago
    Do you really think that it is that simple?
    - sickbeard 10y ago
      Of course not, but when the democratic process is used to vote in people who don't respect it there's not much you can do but respect the will of the people.
  - sctb 10y ago
    > The people of Turkey have stood meekly by... I'm sorry, but this is not a factual statement. Please stop.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

ysleepy 10y ago

Seems like a good time for the technical community to reassess its contribution to the situation and how we can do better. How were communication services used by individuals and the state? Did the threat model encompass the seen actions and techniques? Which companies collaborated? I see a lot of responsibility on our side to do better.

throwawayfromtr 10y ago

It is pretty clear now that the Turkey's Islamic government was behind the fake coup. They have used this to hit all of their opposition without worrying about laws (state of emergency = do whatever you want) 1. Complete clear all Gulen cult members from their infiltrated state positions 2. Hit secular Turks (Cumhuriyet newspaper behind bars this week) 3. Hit Kurdish opposition ( Kurdish party members behind bars this week) Now that they are fighting in three big fronts. There is no way for them to succeed. On the other hand, if they win, this is the end of the secular, democratic Turkish Republic (which pretty much eroded on all those counts since the Islamic party came the power)

cm3 10y ago
> overnment was behind the fake coup. Has this been proven yet? I'm under the impression that we're still in the stages of better not believing any side of the arguments because any secrets - if they exist - will be fresh and well hidden for the moment. If you ask me, I would be very careful claiming to know who orchestrated what.
prefect42 10y ago
What is a "Islamic party"? Turkey is something like 96% Muslim population, so chances are, any particular cross section of society might just be called "Islamic" something, including the government.
- pjc50 10y ago
  Confusion between "Islamic" and "Islamist" here I think; the first simply has Islam as a religion and the second uses it as a hammer. Compare Germany's Christian Democrats (the former) and, say, Pat Buchanan (the latter).
- gkya 10y ago
  That 96% is the amount of people registered as Muslims, and the religion status are registered at birth as parents declare. Further, who's not a registered Christian or Jewish is considered a Muslim by default. So that 96% includes: atheists, converts to religions other than those of book (Islam, Christianity, Judaism), Alawites (10 million of them, and Turkey's population is 70million), secularists and the non practising Muslims (edit: i.e. who are only nominally Muslim because parents are).

cm3 10y ago

Genuinely curious, only serious answers, please: can someone living in Turkey explain how the government can justify ordering a ban while publicly using Twitter themselves? What am I missing?

zubi 10y ago
They are not "banning" in the sense of disallowing or prohibiting. They just slow it down to the point where it is no more usable. Media is only as good as they serve to the needs of the government. As for the justification, nowadays they don't really justify anything, they just do, and it doesn't matter if it is unlawful or not. Especially after the coup attempt, there's this state of emergency situation which allows the government to bypass the parliament which pretty much translates to no justification for anything, capability is enough and it is not difficult to find stuff to use as pretext. Many of the government's recent actions are gross violations of constitution and several other laws, all possible due to the emergency status.
- ozgung 10y ago
  Exactly. The real answer to the question is: they don't care and they don't need to explain anything
brian_cloutier 10y ago
To add to the other answer you received, Turkey was in the habit of blocking social media after things like bombings well before the state of emergency was announced. A bombing just happened, which could explain this current round of blocks: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/04/asia/turkey-kurdish-leaders/index.html http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/04/asia/turkey-kurdish-leader... I'm reading from this site: http://www.amerikaninsesi.com/a/internet-erisiminin-yavaslatilmasi-yasaya-aykiri-mi/3397116.html http://www.amerikaninsesi.com/a/internet-erisiminin-yavaslat... (sorry for the Turkish) The official power comes from a statue which allows restricting communication when "made necessary for national security purposes or a situation arises which might seriously impact social order", this was the justification for blocking after the bombing at Ataturk airport. People sharing videos and images of attacks is not good for the public morale, and that's ostensibly such an important concern that it merits blocking social media. This current round of blocks has suspicious timing and extent but as my sibling points out, it's a state of emergency, they don't need justification.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

sctblol 10y ago

I wonder how many people there agree with such blocks, etc. I am a crypto-fascist myself, and I can understand and respect this kind of stuff when we are talking about maintaining order of the law, and I also imagine that a big % of Turkey (maybe even double digit) want this. We simply have a different culture here, where freedom > *. They are very very different there, and making judgements (such as "nobody would ever want twitter to be blocked") can be very wrong.

ozgung 10y ago
> I also imagine that a big % of Turkey (maybe even double digit) want this. I'd say between 20 to 40%. They would support anything the government wants.

mustafaucar87 10y ago

As a Turkish, there are so much hate going into most of the people's comments going on here. I am a Turkish citizen and i live there so without the actual experience, most of the things said here is not true and heavily biased. The people that got arrested last night were actively tied to terrorist organization called PKK and execute under their command. How would you feel there was a senator in your country representing such terrorist organization and continue to do so because he was untouchable because he was elected? How would you feel you left you house or dorm scared that you would be blown into pieces on your way to school or some errand etc? Those people are widely connected and their supporters are trying to organize violent acts via social media. Another thing is Turkey is %90+ muslim so It is very odd that people call Erdogan islamist. So what? It is a muslim country. People actually voted for him(including myself and most of the people i know). It is peoples beliefs. You dont say things about Obama or Bush 'Oh he is a Christian Leader' every time you have a conversation that has a negative context.

ozgung 10y ago
Thanks Mr. Government supporting PR account. People ilke you are the main reason we are ashamed of and hopeless about our own country. And if you are serious, definitely we are not living in the same country. I envy you. BTW, Islamist does not mean Muslim. It's a political ideology. And it's not a democratic one. Erdogan is definitely an Islamist politician. Edit: And Kurdish politicians and their leader are not terrorists at all. They have never been considered as terrorists since today. Only reason they are on target now is because Erdogan is obsessed with changing the regime and becoming the president while Kurdish party hinders that. The truth in Turkey is as simple as this.
- mustafaucar87 10y ago
  Yes i support my government. I am not going to be ashamed of it and proudly continue to do so. May be you should start supporting it too instead backing a situation where it is about fighting against a terrorist organization.
- Freestyler_3 10y ago

gkya 10y ago

A must watch: 3 rules for rulers from CGP Grey on YouTube. 20 mins, talks about how authoritarian regimes function. Sheds light on why all these stuff happens the world over.