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What does this have to do with actual censorship, shutting down media, and jailing of journalists critical to Erdogan?

myf01d 10y ago
I am from Egypt, I remember very well, when the revolution of June 2013 broke out against the muslim brotherhood, the US said it stands with the "legitimate" regime (back then morsi), when they were toppled, the US said it was coup (funny they said it was a revolution when it was against Mubarak). And everyone here is suffering from an unofficial economic embargo enforced by the US on us ever since. It is simply a coup or a revolution, a democracy or a dictatorship, depending on the "relations" between the US politicians and these governments.
- hackuser 10y ago
  I'm not from Egypt, but my understanding is: 1) Mubarak was an unelected dictator; he was replaced by a democratically elected government. 2) Morsi was democratically elected and replaced by a military dictatorship; thus it was a coup.
  - myf01d 10y ago
    1) Mubarak was elected democratically in 2005. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_presidential_election,_2005 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_presidential_election... 2) Mubarak was also forced to resign by the same military council in February 2011 and the military council ruled until June 2012 when morsi was elected, it just wasn't called a "coup" and "military dictatorship" back then by the western media.
    - hackuser 10y ago
      > 1) Mubarak was elected democratically in 2005. Stalin and many (most?) other dictators also have staged elections. From the article you linked: ---- Of the 30 proposed candidates, only 10 were allowed to participate in the presidential election by the Presidential Election Commission. One prominent candidate not allowed to run was Talaat Sadat, the nephew of former President Anwar Sadat, who appealed his disqualification unsuccessfully. Egypt's largest Islamic group, the Muslim Brotherhood, was not permitted to field a candidate ... ---- And also: official results showing he won 88.6% of the vote. Mubarak's opponent, Ayman Nour, of the Tomorrow Party, is estimated to have received 7.3% of the vote and Numan Gumaa received 2.8%, Numbers like that are unseen in any legitimate election. The highest in U.S. history was 61%.
      - myf01d 10y ago
        Still not more dictatorial than detaining tens of thousands and even freeing thousand of criminals to get some room for the alleged coup plotters, a coup where a couple of hundred young soldiers most of whom didn't even know what was going on, and laying off hundreds of thousands of people from all professions (academia, sport, journalism). At the same time, his army is crushing kurd civilians not only in Turkey, but now in Syria and Iraq. Who is more like Stalin do you think? Mubarak or Erdogan?
        triplesec 10y ago
        So they're all rubbish. What would constitute a good system of government in Egypt?
      - markdown 10y ago
        > The highest in U.S. history was 61%. That's not surprising since the US doesn't make election day a public holiday.
        jospoortvliet 10y ago
        he didn't mean attendance but percentage of votes for the winner.
  - frandroid 10y ago
    2.0a) As soon as Morsi got elected, his Muslim Brotherhood started passing laws to make the country in their image, and in a short period of time, would have become an Islamic dictatorship. I'm no fan of Sissi's coup but there was no democratic outcome after that election.
- 1915again 10y ago
  Wow. How can Egyptians be so poor in their understanding of the Politics of Egypt. Time and again. - Mubarak was America's best friend. American's public support for Egyptian democracy? Yeah, that's just for show. - Who else was America's best friend? The Egyptian army. 90% of US aid goes to propping of the Egyptian military and has for decades (basically the army is in their pockets). America and IDF has had an excellent working relationship (ie help with killing Palestinians) with the Egyptian military for decades. - Americans didn't like Morsi at all, Although overtly they claimed to support Egyptian democracy. - Eventually Morsi, messes up. And guess who is there to save the day? Why its the Egyptian Army! Morsi tried to restrict democracy. Sisi will defend democracy by removing it entirely. Next thing you know the entire democratic elected cabinet is on death row and Mubarak is slowly but surely having his charges removed, while living under 'House arrest' in his comfy house. - Who is now emperor of Egypt? Why its America's point man and best buddy for decades, Sisi (This is purely coincidence, wink wink ). America will very loudly suspend all aid to the dictatorship, only to very quietly resume it a year later. Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
- tdkl 10y ago
  We've always been at war with Eastasia.
- catalinbraescu 10y ago
  " And everyone here is suffering from an unofficial economic embargo enforced by the US on us ever since." Lol. USA is pumping up every year more than 1 billion USD into Egypt.

I am from Egypt, I remember very well, when the revolution of June 2013 broke out against the muslim brotherhood, the US said it stands with the "legitimate" regime (back then morsi), when they were toppled, the US said it was coup (funny they said it was a revolution when it was against Mubarak). And everyone here is suffering from an unofficial economic embargo enforced by the US on us ever since. It is simply a coup or a revolution, a democracy or a dictatorship, depending on the "relations" between the US politicians and these governments.

hackuser 10y ago
I'm not from Egypt, but my understanding is: 1) Mubarak was an unelected dictator; he was replaced by a democratically elected government. 2) Morsi was democratically elected and replaced by a military dictatorship; thus it was a coup.
- myf01d 10y ago
  1) Mubarak was elected democratically in 2005. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_presidential_election,_2005 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_presidential_election... 2) Mubarak was also forced to resign by the same military council in February 2011 and the military council ruled until June 2012 when morsi was elected, it just wasn't called a "coup" and "military dictatorship" back then by the western media.
  - hackuser 10y ago
    > 1) Mubarak was elected democratically in 2005. Stalin and many (most?) other dictators also have staged elections. From the article you linked: ---- Of the 30 proposed candidates, only 10 were allowed to participate in the presidential election by the Presidential Election Commission. One prominent candidate not allowed to run was Talaat Sadat, the nephew of former President Anwar Sadat, who appealed his disqualification unsuccessfully. Egypt's largest Islamic group, the Muslim Brotherhood, was not permitted to field a candidate ... ---- And also: official results showing he won 88.6% of the vote. Mubarak's opponent, Ayman Nour, of the Tomorrow Party, is estimated to have received 7.3% of the vote and Numan Gumaa received 2.8%, Numbers like that are unseen in any legitimate election. The highest in U.S. history was 61%.
    - myf01d 10y ago
      Still not more dictatorial than detaining tens of thousands and even freeing thousand of criminals to get some room for the alleged coup plotters, a coup where a couple of hundred young soldiers most of whom didn't even know what was going on, and laying off hundreds of thousands of people from all professions (academia, sport, journalism). At the same time, his army is crushing kurd civilians not only in Turkey, but now in Syria and Iraq. Who is more like Stalin do you think? Mubarak or Erdogan?
      - triplesec 10y ago
        So they're all rubbish. What would constitute a good system of government in Egypt?
    - markdown 10y ago
      > The highest in U.S. history was 61%. That's not surprising since the US doesn't make election day a public holiday.
      - jospoortvliet 10y ago
        he didn't mean attendance but percentage of votes for the winner.
- frandroid 10y ago
  2.0a) As soon as Morsi got elected, his Muslim Brotherhood started passing laws to make the country in their image, and in a short period of time, would have become an Islamic dictatorship. I'm no fan of Sissi's coup but there was no democratic outcome after that election.
1915again 10y ago
Wow. How can Egyptians be so poor in their understanding of the Politics of Egypt. Time and again. - Mubarak was America's best friend. American's public support for Egyptian democracy? Yeah, that's just for show. - Who else was America's best friend? The Egyptian army. 90% of US aid goes to propping of the Egyptian military and has for decades (basically the army is in their pockets). America and IDF has had an excellent working relationship (ie help with killing Palestinians) with the Egyptian military for decades. - Americans didn't like Morsi at all, Although overtly they claimed to support Egyptian democracy. - Eventually Morsi, messes up. And guess who is there to save the day? Why its the Egyptian Army! Morsi tried to restrict democracy. Sisi will defend democracy by removing it entirely. Next thing you know the entire democratic elected cabinet is on death row and Mubarak is slowly but surely having his charges removed, while living under 'House arrest' in his comfy house. - Who is now emperor of Egypt? Why its America's point man and best buddy for decades, Sisi (This is purely coincidence, wink wink ). America will very loudly suspend all aid to the dictatorship, only to very quietly resume it a year later. Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
tdkl 10y ago
We've always been at war with Eastasia.
catalinbraescu 10y ago
" And everyone here is suffering from an unofficial economic embargo enforced by the US on us ever since." Lol. USA is pumping up every year more than 1 billion USD into Egypt.