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I just got back from visiting family in Turkey. Turkey is in a really weird place. On the one hand, Erdogan is a corrupt tyrant who has done some inexcusably h

I just got back from visiting family in Turkey. Turkey is in a really weird place. On the one hand, Erdogan is a corrupt tyrant who has done some inexcusably horrible things. On the other hand, he has thoroughly cleaned the cemaat infestation. For the record, cemaat refers to people loyal to a man named Fethullah Gulen, who is a radical Islamist and a very controversial figure in Turkey. You can read more about him here: http://www.city-journal.org/html/who-fethullah-g%C3%BClen-13504.html http://www.city-journal.org/html/who-fethullah-g%C3%BClen-13... Anyway, Internet blockages like this usually precede widespread police operations. Based on what I can gather from Turkish newspapers right now, it looks like HDP headquarters is being raided by the police as part of a terror investigation (which is kind of a big deal). HDP is a pro-Kurdish, pro-minority party that got a lot of votes in the last election and prevented Erdogan's AKP from reaching parliamentary majority.

turkeyintrouble 10y ago
It's strange that Gulen is considered a radical islamist by some and a super pacifists, modern muslim by others. How is this possible? For some background, he's well supported in international muslims with seemingly more forward-thinking views. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BClen_movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BClen_movement
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  I personally would not trust anything I read about him on Wikipedia, since it can be edited by just about anyone, and he is estimated to have about 5 million followers. Read the link I provided - it's a lot more objective and provides a lot of historical perspective as well.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - denfromufa 10y ago
    Do you trust Erdogan media more than wikipedia?
    - turkeyintrouble 10y ago
      His source has nothing to do with Erdogan. It's a conservative American think tank. The parent is saying something controversial but he's being articulate about it. Look at his writings with more charity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Journal_(New_York_City) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Journal_(New_York_City)
dogma1138 10y ago
Hitler got rid of the brown coats when he didn't need them anymore also. Fethullah Gulen and Erdogan were besties until about 3 years ago. It's also a bit funny that you call this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fethullah_G%C3%BClen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fethullah_G%C3%BClen a Terrorist, if he is he has the best poker face of all of them so far. While he probably has more than one agenda, neither the US, Israel nor any EU nation has never put him or his followers on any watch list, and at least publicly he strongly condemned any act of terrorism and incitement. He is such and "islamist" that he was probably the only major religious leader that didn't put the blame on Israel for the Flotilla incident and rather said that the organizers should have cooperated with them and put more effort into ensuring that radicals would not join the flotilla, this doesn't exactly seem like something a Terrorist would say publicly on several occasions and probably didn't made him any friends on either side of the political spectrum. If you want here is a decent paper on him and his movement by the German Institute for International and Security Affairs https://www.swp-berlin.org/fileadmin/contents/products/research_papers/2014_RP02_srt.pdf https://www.swp-berlin.org/fileadmin/contents/products/resea...
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  I never called him a terrorist. Please read more carefully. Also, since you obviously haven't read the link I provided, here's an excerpt from a speech he gave in 1999 in which he talks about... well, I'll let you be the judge: "You must move in the arteries of the system without anyone noticing your existence until you reach all the power centers. . . . Until the conditions are ripe, they [the followers] must continue like this. If they do something prematurely, the world will crush our heads, and Muslims will suffer everywhere, like in the tragedies in Algeria, like in 1982 [in] Syria, . . . like in the yearly disasters and tragedies in Egypt. . . . The time is not yet right. You must wait for the time when you are complete and conditions are ripe, until we can shoulder the entire world and carry it. . . . You must wait until such time as you have gotten all the state power, until you have brought to your side all the power of the constitutional institutions in Turkey . . . . Now, I have expressed my feelings and thoughts to you all—in confidence . . . trusting your loyalty and secrecy. I know that when you leave here, [just] as you discard your empty juice boxes, you must discard the thoughts and the feelings that I expressed here."
denfromufa 10y ago
There were many lawsuits against Gulen and his sympathizers (Hizmet movement) even in US - but he was acquitted many times. Erdogan put all the blame on him and his followers to suppress corruption investigation into his circle of politicians and even family members. Read about Reza Zarrab prosecuted in US right now. https://www.google.com/amp/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/iran-sanctions-case-against-turkish-trader-reza-zarrab-to-move-forward-1476722166 https://www.google.com/amp/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/iran-san...
hackuser 10y ago
It's hard to see Gulen as worse than Erdogan, who has invaded Iraq, oppressing his population, reignited war with and is killing Kurdish people, and building relations with Russia. He's outlawed criticism of himself and arrested people for it, shut down newspapers ... > he has thoroughly cleaned ... The upside to every dictator, with just different endings to the sentence. Too bad for the innocent people imprisoned, whose lives have been ruined. No problem for you and me, so it's a good thing. Freedom and rights mean for everyone else; everyone believes in freedom for themselves.

turkeyintrouble 10y ago

It's strange that Gulen is considered a radical islamist by some and a super pacifists, modern muslim by others. How is this possible? For some background, he's well supported in international muslims with seemingly more forward-thinking views. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BClen_movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BClen_movement

enraged_camel 10y ago
I personally would not trust anything I read about him on Wikipedia, since it can be edited by just about anyone, and he is estimated to have about 5 million followers. Read the link I provided - it's a lot more objective and provides a lot of historical perspective as well.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- denfromufa 10y ago
  Do you trust Erdogan media more than wikipedia?
  - turkeyintrouble 10y ago
    His source has nothing to do with Erdogan. It's a conservative American think tank. The parent is saying something controversial but he's being articulate about it. Look at his writings with more charity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Journal_(New_York_City) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Journal_(New_York_City)

dogma1138 10y ago

Hitler got rid of the brown coats when he didn't need them anymore also. Fethullah Gulen and Erdogan were besties until about 3 years ago. It's also a bit funny that you call this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fethullah_G%C3%BClen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fethullah_G%C3%BClen a Terrorist, if he is he has the best poker face of all of them so far. While he probably has more than one agenda, neither the US, Israel nor any EU nation has never put him or his followers on any watch list, and at least publicly he strongly condemned any act of terrorism and incitement. He is such and "islamist" that he was probably the only major religious leader that didn't put the blame on Israel for the Flotilla incident and rather said that the organizers should have cooperated with them and put more effort into ensuring that radicals would not join the flotilla, this doesn't exactly seem like something a Terrorist would say publicly on several occasions and probably didn't made him any friends on either side of the political spectrum. If you want here is a decent paper on him and his movement by the German Institute for International and Security Affairs https://www.swp-berlin.org/fileadmin/contents/products/research_papers/2014_RP02_srt.pdf https://www.swp-berlin.org/fileadmin/contents/products/resea...

enraged_camel 10y ago
I never called him a terrorist. Please read more carefully. Also, since you obviously haven't read the link I provided, here's an excerpt from a speech he gave in 1999 in which he talks about... well, I'll let you be the judge: "You must move in the arteries of the system without anyone noticing your existence until you reach all the power centers. . . . Until the conditions are ripe, they [the followers] must continue like this. If they do something prematurely, the world will crush our heads, and Muslims will suffer everywhere, like in the tragedies in Algeria, like in 1982 [in] Syria, . . . like in the yearly disasters and tragedies in Egypt. . . . The time is not yet right. You must wait for the time when you are complete and conditions are ripe, until we can shoulder the entire world and carry it. . . . You must wait until such time as you have gotten all the state power, until you have brought to your side all the power of the constitutional institutions in Turkey . . . . Now, I have expressed my feelings and thoughts to you all—in confidence . . . trusting your loyalty and secrecy. I know that when you leave here, [just] as you discard your empty juice boxes, you must discard the thoughts and the feelings that I expressed here."

denfromufa 10y ago

There were many lawsuits against Gulen and his sympathizers (Hizmet movement) even in US - but he was acquitted many times. Erdogan put all the blame on him and his followers to suppress corruption investigation into his circle of politicians and even family members. Read about Reza Zarrab prosecuted in US right now. https://www.google.com/amp/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/iran-sanctions-case-against-turkish-trader-reza-zarrab-to-move-forward-1476722166 https://www.google.com/amp/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/iran-san...

hackuser 10y ago

It's hard to see Gulen as worse than Erdogan, who has invaded Iraq, oppressing his population, reignited war with and is killing Kurdish people, and building relations with Russia. He's outlawed criticism of himself and arrested people for it, shut down newspapers ... > he has thoroughly cleaned ... The upside to every dictator, with just different endings to the sentence. Too bad for the innocent people imprisoned, whose lives have been ruined. No problem for you and me, so it's a good thing. Freedom and rights mean for everyone else; everyone believes in freedom for themselves.