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> Categorizing type as "a design choice" dismisses it as fashion rather than function, which I don't think is the case. I think it's a question of how often it

> Categorizing type as "a design choice" dismisses it as fashion rather than function, which I don't think is the case. I think it's a question of how often it's one vs. the other. There are precious few good examples of web font usage -- so few, in fact, that I can't even think of one off the top of my head. > Type can put fashion over function, but it can also enhance function by making text more readable, How so? I mean, I've literally chosen my system fonts based on readability (to me, on my screen, with my eyesight, with my lighting conditions, etc!). I'm also used to those fonts. > [...] by expressing a point visually that reinforces the point the page is making textually Do you have any good examples of this? I don't think I've ever seen it "in the wild", so to speak. Disclosure: I'm so annoyed by web fonts that I use a browser plugin which actually overrides fonts chosen by web pages, so I may not have been experiencing a representative sample of "what's out there". I had to have a quick-toggle for that plugin because suddenly it became fashionable to use goddamn fonts for icons. Ugh. Don't get me started :).

phkahler 10y ago
>> > Type can put fashion over function, but it can also enhance function by making text more readable, How so? I mean, I've literally chosen my system fonts based on readability (to me, on my screen, with my eyesight, with my lighting conditions, etc!). I'm also used to those fonts. Oh come on, the "designer" knows what's best for you. ;-) I was going to make a similar response, but you beat me so sarcasm.
- mbrock 10y ago
  Designers don't typically design for people who change their default fonts because most people don't know how and on some platforms it's not even possible.
matt4077 10y ago
https://www.wired.com https://www.wired.com is excellent in how they use fonts to subtly indicate importance/recency/category. Many newspapers use fonts very consciously, which usually has the effect that it doesn't enter the reader's consciousness. It's a subtle cue indicating the brand and the image it wants to project. oCmpare the NYT and the Economist – they aim to reach almost identical populations, but the NYT uses serifs (tradition, dependence, gravity) vs. the Econmist's sans (modern, fast, business).
- callalex 10y ago
  What you just described is called fashion.
- wott 10y ago
  > https://www.wired.com https://www.wired.com is excellent in how they use fonts to subtly indicate importance/recency/category. You call that "subtle"??? There are like 10 different fonts/boldnesses jumping at me at first sight.
Nadya 10y ago
You aren't alone and some go even further! I make my own "enhancement suite" for any website I frequent. I blacklist all Javascript by default and whitelist only Javascript necessary for things to function. I use Greasemonkey to add my own functionality to a page, sometimes blacklisting the "default" functionality and rolling my own code to replace it in a more "me-friendly" way. And finally, Stylish, so that I can completely nuke the site's CSS and roll out my own. But most users won't go through that. They'll use the default browser font and never change it. Corporate doesn't want to use Arial on the site, so we have a problem with the browser default. Luckily the designer has threatened to quit before they use Comic Sans. At best, they'll pick a nice legible font and at worst they'll pick something "aesthetic" that may be a pain in the ass to read. Usually you get somewhere in the middle or a (sans-)serif font from Google Fonts. Once upon a time I could trick corporate into using Helvetica, but it seems to have "fallen out of fashion". They don't actually look at the font, they just know what they "don't want" and what they "don't want" is Arial.
- dom0 10y ago
  For some sites I use a lot I do this as well. Mostly CSS fixes, for example widening GitHub's layout to some 1300px. But also removing annoying "design-crap", substituting fonts etc.
- scholia 10y ago
  Would it be feasible to have an "enhancement pack" website where less talented people (ie me) could get fixes like this. I remember doing stuff like this with Proxomitron in the good old days....
  - Nadya 10y ago
    >Would it be feasible to have an "enhancement pack" website where less talented people (ie me) could get fixes like this. Sort of? At least if I'm understanding you properly. :) It used to be that userscripts.org was a thing. Now I think you need to use a mirror [0]. There is also a subreddit for them [1]. Stylish should have a similar site for themes - although not all userscripts will work properly with Stylish (styles may break functionality that relies on styles being a certain way). For a few sites, I think people have made "generators" for stylesheets to make it user-friendly to generate your own userstyle. I'm not aware of any offhand though. It would be nice to have a more "curated" or organized Userscripts site, since not all of them are site-specific. The two most popular "enhancement suites" are the Youtube Enhancement Suite and the Reddit Enhancement Suite, both of which do countless things and are extremely "heavyweight" in functionality/features. My personal "enhancement suites" are a lot smaller in scale and public usability. :) [0] https://userscripts-mirror.org/ https://userscripts-mirror.org/ [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/userscripts/ https://www.reddit.com/r/userscripts/
tracker1 10y ago
Most people don't adjust their system fonts.. then again, most defaults are reasonable. And to anyone who reads this, for the love of $deity, stop specifying Arial or Helvetica before sans-serif. It's one thing if you want a specific default, but the fallback should be whatever system's sane choice.

phkahler 10y ago

>> > Type can put fashion over function, but it can also enhance function by making text more readable, How so? I mean, I've literally chosen my system fonts based on readability (to me, on my screen, with my eyesight, with my lighting conditions, etc!). I'm also used to those fonts. Oh come on, the "designer" knows what's best for you. ;-) I was going to make a similar response, but you beat me so sarcasm.

mbrock 10y ago
Designers don't typically design for people who change their default fonts because most people don't know how and on some platforms it's not even possible.

matt4077 10y ago

https://www.wired.com https://www.wired.com is excellent in how they use fonts to subtly indicate importance/recency/category. Many newspapers use fonts very consciously, which usually has the effect that it doesn't enter the reader's consciousness. It's a subtle cue indicating the brand and the image it wants to project. oCmpare the NYT and the Economist – they aim to reach almost identical populations, but the NYT uses serifs (tradition, dependence, gravity) vs. the Econmist's sans (modern, fast, business).

callalex 10y ago
What you just described is called fashion.
wott 10y ago
> https://www.wired.com https://www.wired.com is excellent in how they use fonts to subtly indicate importance/recency/category. You call that "subtle"??? There are like 10 different fonts/boldnesses jumping at me at first sight.

Nadya 10y ago

You aren't alone and some go even further! I make my own "enhancement suite" for any website I frequent. I blacklist all Javascript by default and whitelist only Javascript necessary for things to function. I use Greasemonkey to add my own functionality to a page, sometimes blacklisting the "default" functionality and rolling my own code to replace it in a more "me-friendly" way. And finally, Stylish, so that I can completely nuke the site's CSS and roll out my own. But most users won't go through that. They'll use the default browser font and never change it. Corporate doesn't want to use Arial on the site, so we have a problem with the browser default. Luckily the designer has threatened to quit before they use Comic Sans. At best, they'll pick a nice legible font and at worst they'll pick something "aesthetic" that may be a pain in the ass to read. Usually you get somewhere in the middle or a (sans-)serif font from Google Fonts. Once upon a time I could trick corporate into using Helvetica, but it seems to have "fallen out of fashion". They don't actually look at the font, they just know what they "don't want" and what they "don't want" is Arial.

dom0 10y ago
For some sites I use a lot I do this as well. Mostly CSS fixes, for example widening GitHub's layout to some 1300px. But also removing annoying "design-crap", substituting fonts etc.
scholia 10y ago
Would it be feasible to have an "enhancement pack" website where less talented people (ie me) could get fixes like this. I remember doing stuff like this with Proxomitron in the good old days....
- Nadya 10y ago
  >Would it be feasible to have an "enhancement pack" website where less talented people (ie me) could get fixes like this. Sort of? At least if I'm understanding you properly. :) It used to be that userscripts.org was a thing. Now I think you need to use a mirror [0]. There is also a subreddit for them [1]. Stylish should have a similar site for themes - although not all userscripts will work properly with Stylish (styles may break functionality that relies on styles being a certain way). For a few sites, I think people have made "generators" for stylesheets to make it user-friendly to generate your own userstyle. I'm not aware of any offhand though. It would be nice to have a more "curated" or organized Userscripts site, since not all of them are site-specific. The two most popular "enhancement suites" are the Youtube Enhancement Suite and the Reddit Enhancement Suite, both of which do countless things and are extremely "heavyweight" in functionality/features. My personal "enhancement suites" are a lot smaller in scale and public usability. :) [0] https://userscripts-mirror.org/ https://userscripts-mirror.org/ [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/userscripts/ https://www.reddit.com/r/userscripts/

tracker1 10y ago

Most people don't adjust their system fonts.. then again, most defaults are reasonable. And to anyone who reads this, for the love of $deity, stop specifying Arial or Helvetica before sans-serif. It's one thing if you want a specific default, but the fallback should be whatever system's sane choice.