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Considering the British people never voted to join the EU in its current form, I'm not sure why membership of the EU should be seen as the default option. If w
by ldjb 10y ago
Considering the British people never voted to join the EU in its current form, I'm not sure why membership of the EU should be seen as the default option.
If we weren't asked whether we wanted to join a post-Lisbon Treaty EU, and once we were in it, we actively said we don't want it, why should we remain in it?
- ricw 10y agoThis is factually incorrect. As a parliamentary democracy we voted for all the governments that agreed to all such treaties and had the right to veto or reject any of them (which we did, the Schengen or euro treaties being examples thereof).
- ldjb 10y agoPeople voted in general elections for many different reasons. People voting for a pro-EU party didn't necessarily support the EU. And all those elections took place under a flawed first-past-the-post system.
- throwaway-hn123 10y agoI mean, if you want to keep moving the goalposts as your arguments are rebutted, that's fine. It just makes you not appear to be acting in good faith.
- ldjb 10y agoI don't see how I'm moving the goalposts. All I'm saying is that the EU referendum result must be respected. General election results must also be respected, but they revolve around a number of issues, so are not a good indicator of voters' opinion of membership of the EU. Besides, the Conservatives were elected into government with a manifesto promising an in-out referendum. The government has delivered on that promise and is carrying out the will of the people, as decided in that referendum.
- throwaway-hn123 10y ago> All I'm saying is that the EU referendum result must be respected. It is being respected. This might be news to you, but we don't live in a fascist dictatorship where dissent is forbidden. So, in your view, not a single thing any government has done (with the exception of joining the Common Market) has been agreed to by the population. Interesting.
- ldjb 10y agoThings such as the NHS, the minimum wage and same-sex marriage are things governments have achieved with overwhelming support from the people. But it's true that the people didn't have a direct say on these things. I don't see it as a problem though because, unlike the EU, the majority of people are perfectly happy with these things.
- throwaway-hn123 10y agoNice assertions. I think this would be a good time for you to step back and examine the profound contradictions in your thought processes. And remember, in your future, no dissent is allowed.
- throwaway-hn123 10y agoNot sure what that has to do with my comment. Perhaps you meant to reply to someone else?
- ldjb 10y agoI disagree with what you said about it being okay to attempt to stop Brexit, even after we voted against membership of the EU and never agreed to be part of it in the first place.
- throwaway-hn123 10y agoBizarre. We did agree to be in the EU. In any case, I trust you'll never vote again or protest against any voting outcomes that you disagree with as you seem to think that once a vote has been held, the outcome can never be disagreed with.
- ldjb 10y agoI'm not sure how we agreed to be in the EU when we voted to leave on 23rd June. I don't expect everyone to be happy about the outcome of votes, but I do expect outcomes to be respected. I'm not opposed to decisions being overturned, but I don't think it's right to re-run a vote right after it has been carried out. We haven't even left the EU yet. At some point after we've left the EU, perhaps there will be grounds to take another look at membership of the EU. But not straight away. I want as many people as possible to participate in elections and referendums (even if I disagree with them), because I want everyone's voice to be heard. That's what it means to live in a democracy. And so I certainly intend to continue voting.
- throwaway-hn123 10y agoLuckily you're not in charge of how our democracy works.