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I do cave exploration, and it can be an even more insidious version of that: in a vertical cave you rappel down to the bottom - a task that can require almost n

I do cave exploration, and it can be an even more insidious version of that: in a vertical cave you rappel down to the bottom - a task that can require almost no exertion at all in some caves. Then once you turn around its vertical climbing all the way to the top, occasionally in very cold and wet conditions where stopping for any significant length of time can lead to hypothermia and death faster then you'd be rescued. Of course, good cavers know all this and take their limits into account! So it doesn't have to be as dangerous as it sounds, but God help you if you go in without knowing this. And sure enough, I usually find the most mentally hard part of caving to be going in, rather than coming out.

CydeWeys 10y ago
The rule in the Grand Canyon is that each mile you hike down is 1.5-2X harder to hike back up, so you should turn back once you've given at most 33-40% of your available effort (or make plans to spend the night at the bottom). It sounds like that multiplier is way higher still in caving. 10X? More?
- petertodd 10y ago
  It depends a _lot_ on the cave - some caves are pure horizontal crawling with equal effort in and out - but the worst case is pure rappels where you may literally do nothing more than lightly hold onto the brake end of the rope for an hour while you descend, followed by a grueling climb straight up. On top of that, the efficiency of ascending gear varies wildly: if you use an inappropriate setup - quite common with climbers who have no prior experience caving - you may be working 10x or more harder than someone with an appropriate setup. Basically the problem here, is the typical way climbers climb a rope is only suitable for very short climbs of 30-40ft, because you end up applying the force at a big angle relative to the rope; rather than pushing vertically up you wastefully push sideways. The vastly more efficient setups/equipment that cavers use allows you to push almost directly up while climbing up the rope.

CydeWeys 10y ago

The rule in the Grand Canyon is that each mile you hike down is 1.5-2X harder to hike back up, so you should turn back once you've given at most 33-40% of your available effort (or make plans to spend the night at the bottom). It sounds like that multiplier is way higher still in caving. 10X? More?

petertodd 10y ago
It depends a _lot_ on the cave - some caves are pure horizontal crawling with equal effort in and out - but the worst case is pure rappels where you may literally do nothing more than lightly hold onto the brake end of the rope for an hour while you descend, followed by a grueling climb straight up. On top of that, the efficiency of ascending gear varies wildly: if you use an inappropriate setup - quite common with climbers who have no prior experience caving - you may be working 10x or more harder than someone with an appropriate setup. Basically the problem here, is the typical way climbers climb a rope is only suitable for very short climbs of 30-40ft, because you end up applying the force at a big angle relative to the rope; rather than pushing vertically up you wastefully push sideways. The vastly more efficient setups/equipment that cavers use allows you to push almost directly up while climbing up the rope.