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It doesn't seem like there is even an understanding of the criticism based on his response in the article. Let me spell it out explicitly: The criticism is th

by bcheung 10y ago

It doesn't seem like there is even an understanding of the criticism based on his response in the article. Let me spell it out explicitly: The criticism is that this is a Pro machine. Pro people care about performance and features. The decision to optimize for thinner and lighter at the expense of other useful features is the criticism. The weight and size were fine before. I don't care. I'd be fine with bigger and heavier too. All I care is that it fits in a normal size backpack / travel case. As a photographer I would need have an SD card reader now and the vast majority don't come in USB-C. If I already had a reader I would now need a dongle to convert it. That's more hassle and more things to lug around. I already need to carry several bags worth of studio gear, the less I need to carry the better. In terms of video, there really isn't any compelling reason to upgrade until Kaby Lake is out. The increased 4K encoding and decoding is quite significant. It would have been nice to have the MBP come out earlier, that way another MBP could be released shortly after the Kaby Lake release. If it takes another 1.5 years before another MBP then it would be really far behind the best possible hardware. In short, people who buy the MBP want a Pro laptop, not the Air. Honestly, based on what I'm seeing right now, professional software developers, photographers, and videographers seem to be ignored. I switched to Mac when Apple started using Intel. Based on what I'm seeing now, I'm exploring switching back to Windows. If I'm not your target market anymore, so be it. I can appreciate the business reasons to concentrate on making money. But don't delude yourself into thinking you're serving Pro or creative users anymore.

sharkjacobs 10y ago
i've been trying to think of a list of types of pros that use Macbooks ("pro" being anyone who can use their work to justify spending at least twice as much on their computer, or who works for someone who will spend it for them) as mentioned, there are photographers, video editors, software developers/computer engineers also, audio engineers, illustrators and graphic designers my anecdotal evidence says architects and engineers don't use Macs professionally, and neither do accountants. Lawyers who use Macs don't—or at least don't need to—use high end ones. Same with professors, doctors, accountants. So was in mind during design?
rayiner 10y ago
> The criticism is that this is a Pro machine. Pro people care about performance and features. > The decision to optimize for thinner and lighter at the expense of other useful features is the criticism. The weight and size were fine before. I don't care. I'd be fine with bigger and heavier too. I mean, that's a bit of a weird criticism to level at Apple, isn't it? Making things thinner and lighter has been Apple's MO even in the Pro Line for more than a decade. I remember when the 12" PowerBook G4 came out. It was hailed as breakthrough product for road warriors. It fit a 12" screen into a 4.6 pound frame. Today, the 15" is even lighter than that. Do we miss stuff like the optical drive enough to want to go back to 4.6 pound laptops that only fit a 12" screen? Obviously, even Pro users care about size/weight. If they didn't there would be no point making the 13" model. > All I care is that it fits in a normal size backpack / travel case. So you don't care about the size/weight of the laptop, but the size/weight of the dongles is a deal-breaker? And you'd rather have everyone pay for ports only a few people need than to pack some dongles in one of your several bags? > In terms of video, there really isn't any compelling reason to upgrade until Kaby Lake is out. People would've flipped their shit if Apple had skipped both Broadwell and Skylake.
- mc32 10y ago
  >So you don't care about the size/weight of the laptop, but the size/weight of the dongles is a deal-breaker? And you'd rather have everyone pay for ports only a few people need than to pack some dongles in one of your several bags? I'm not the OP, and for the most part I agree with your take, but here, I get it. Things like dongles are easily lost or broken when you most need them out in the field. When you're busy trying to do something, you don't want to be scrambling trying to find a dongle while you're missing shots -and then fifteen minutes into a search for an adapter you remember you might have left it in the car... I mean, at the airport, I can have my ticket right in my pocket, but damnit if I can't find which pocket it's in.
- SkyMarshal 10y ago
  Things are thin and light enough now - both in laptops and phones (and maybe tablets) - that other features like battery life from bigger thicker batteries provide more marginal utility and value than slightly thinner and lighter do. Witness the Google Nexus 5 -> Nexus 5X, whereas the latter is thicker than its predecessor and with better battery life as a result. Huge usability improvement. Time for manufacturers to realize they've solved the thin and light problem, and now other problems need to take precedence.
nihonde 10y ago
Your criticisms boil down to needing a dongle and the unavailability of Kaby Lake. Personally, I have no issues with the MBP and find the whole "echo chamber" outrage a little silly. It is still an improvement on many fronts over the previous MBP. If you need 16GB+ RAM and more disk space or want to spend less, you buy a desktop or you don't use OSX. As an AAPL shareholder, I'm happy to see Apple shifting its focus toward consumers. As an iOS developer, I just want a portable that runs XCode well. As a web developer, I just want a nice UNIX OS and a good text editor. As a Mac user since 1984, I always have gripes about the OS but they're mostly hair splitting compared to the hair-pulling experience of Windows or Linux. My Macs have always been less than bleeding edge hardware in terms of capacity, performance, etc. but it's a trade off for a solid OS and lower TCO. And yes, I am a "Pro" user by any sensible definition of the word.
- PhantomGremlin 10y ago
  As an AAPL shareholder, I'm happy to see Apple shifting its focus toward consumers. My prediction is there won't be all that many "consumers" buying 13" laptops starting at $1799 (for the version with the touch bar). My kids both already had the 2015 model. I don't know if I would have bought them the new models, considering the higher prices, roughly 40% more expensive. Maybe I would have bought them Macbook Airs. BTW the 13" air is currently being discounted by $100 down to $899. So it also might not be long for this world. I just put my money where my mouth ... err keyboard ... is. Yesterday I bought myself a 2015 model 13" retina (discounted by $100, probably about to be discontinued). So $1199 compared to $1499 (no touch bar) or $1799. The extra features aren't worth it for me. The missing features, like magsafe, are worth paying for. But YMMV.
  - nihonde 10y ago
    Laptops are a declining race to zero. Apple knows this. In five to ten years, they'll seem downright quaint. Edit: For the record, my mid-2014 MBP is nowhere near EOL. I'd rather spend ¥400,000 on AAPL shares.

by bcheung 10y ago

sharkjacobs 10y ago

i've been trying to think of a list of types of pros that use Macbooks ("pro" being anyone who can use their work to justify spending at least twice as much on their computer, or who works for someone who will spend it for them) as mentioned, there are photographers, video editors, software developers/computer engineers also, audio engineers, illustrators and graphic designers my anecdotal evidence says architects and engineers don't use Macs professionally, and neither do accountants. Lawyers who use Macs don't—or at least don't need to—use high end ones. Same with professors, doctors, accountants. So was in mind during design?

rayiner 10y ago

> The criticism is that this is a Pro machine. Pro people care about performance and features. > The decision to optimize for thinner and lighter at the expense of other useful features is the criticism. The weight and size were fine before. I don't care. I'd be fine with bigger and heavier too. I mean, that's a bit of a weird criticism to level at Apple, isn't it? Making things thinner and lighter has been Apple's MO even in the Pro Line for more than a decade. I remember when the 12" PowerBook G4 came out. It was hailed as breakthrough product for road warriors. It fit a 12" screen into a 4.6 pound frame. Today, the 15" is even lighter than that. Do we miss stuff like the optical drive enough to want to go back to 4.6 pound laptops that only fit a 12" screen? Obviously, even Pro users care about size/weight. If they didn't there would be no point making the 13" model. > All I care is that it fits in a normal size backpack / travel case. So you don't care about the size/weight of the laptop, but the size/weight of the dongles is a deal-breaker? And you'd rather have everyone pay for ports only a few people need than to pack some dongles in one of your several bags? > In terms of video, there really isn't any compelling reason to upgrade until Kaby Lake is out. People would've flipped their shit if Apple had skipped both Broadwell and Skylake.

mc32 10y ago
>So you don't care about the size/weight of the laptop, but the size/weight of the dongles is a deal-breaker? And you'd rather have everyone pay for ports only a few people need than to pack some dongles in one of your several bags? I'm not the OP, and for the most part I agree with your take, but here, I get it. Things like dongles are easily lost or broken when you most need them out in the field. When you're busy trying to do something, you don't want to be scrambling trying to find a dongle while you're missing shots -and then fifteen minutes into a search for an adapter you remember you might have left it in the car... I mean, at the airport, I can have my ticket right in my pocket, but damnit if I can't find which pocket it's in.
SkyMarshal 10y ago
Things are thin and light enough now - both in laptops and phones (and maybe tablets) - that other features like battery life from bigger thicker batteries provide more marginal utility and value than slightly thinner and lighter do. Witness the Google Nexus 5 -> Nexus 5X, whereas the latter is thicker than its predecessor and with better battery life as a result. Huge usability improvement. Time for manufacturers to realize they've solved the thin and light problem, and now other problems need to take precedence.

nihonde 10y ago

Your criticisms boil down to needing a dongle and the unavailability of Kaby Lake. Personally, I have no issues with the MBP and find the whole "echo chamber" outrage a little silly. It is still an improvement on many fronts over the previous MBP. If you need 16GB+ RAM and more disk space or want to spend less, you buy a desktop or you don't use OSX. As an AAPL shareholder, I'm happy to see Apple shifting its focus toward consumers. As an iOS developer, I just want a portable that runs XCode well. As a web developer, I just want a nice UNIX OS and a good text editor. As a Mac user since 1984, I always have gripes about the OS but they're mostly hair splitting compared to the hair-pulling experience of Windows or Linux. My Macs have always been less than bleeding edge hardware in terms of capacity, performance, etc. but it's a trade off for a solid OS and lower TCO. And yes, I am a "Pro" user by any sensible definition of the word.

PhantomGremlin 10y ago
As an AAPL shareholder, I'm happy to see Apple shifting its focus toward consumers. My prediction is there won't be all that many "consumers" buying 13" laptops starting at $1799 (for the version with the touch bar). My kids both already had the 2015 model. I don't know if I would have bought them the new models, considering the higher prices, roughly 40% more expensive. Maybe I would have bought them Macbook Airs. BTW the 13" air is currently being discounted by $100 down to $899. So it also might not be long for this world. I just put my money where my mouth ... err keyboard ... is. Yesterday I bought myself a 2015 model 13" retina (discounted by $100, probably about to be discontinued). So $1199 compared to $1499 (no touch bar) or $1799. The extra features aren't worth it for me. The missing features, like magsafe, are worth paying for. But YMMV.
- nihonde 10y ago
  Laptops are a declining race to zero. Apple knows this. In five to ten years, they'll seem downright quaint. Edit: For the record, my mid-2014 MBP is nowhere near EOL. I'd rather spend ¥400,000 on AAPL shares.