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I think that's an overly cynical outlook on job hunting and not in line with what I've actually found on the hiring side. In general, I've found that people hav

by vecter 10y ago

I think that's an overly cynical outlook on job hunting and not in line with what I've actually found on the hiring side. In general, I've found that people have specific areas of interest. Some people love social products, others love enterprise, others love hardware products they can mail to mom and pop, others love games, others love productivity tools, etc. The list is really endless. Of course, people have different personal situations that might result in them ending up at a job that's not in one of their particular areas of interest, but it's overly dismissive to say "the only possible true answer is to get a job", when in fact many candidates could get jobs at tens or hundreds of companies and are very selective about where they end up. We recently hired a candidate who took a sizable pay cut to work with us. I'm sure he could've gotten a meaningfully higher offer to work elsewhere, but ultimately he actually just believed in the long term value of what we were building, and that's valuable for both parties. It is true that some people don't really care at all, but that actually seems to be the minority in my experience. I've had candidates answer me in the past with "to be honest, I saw a job listing and applied" when I asked them why they want to work at our company. I appreciated their directness, but ultimately if that's how they feel, it probably wouldn't be a good fit for either of us. When I read your writing and you say things like the purpose of the job does not make me sick that makes me quite sad actually. You should aim much higher.

SkyMarshal 10y ago
OP's answer may be a bit cynical, especially compared to a highly qualified candidate with a pick of many offers, but one thing he said does ring true: "...the rest remains to be discovered. During the interview process, for example." In my experience as both employee and employer, the interview is a discovery process for both sides. Prior to interviews, the candidate should have some hypothesis about why they want to work for you based on an extrapolation of publicly available information, and it's worth following up with them after the interview process to see if their hypothesis has been confirmed with more concrete information. If it's still vague, then there may be a problem. Works in reverse for the company too, of course.
mdorazio 10y ago
When was the last time you yourself actively looked for a new job? I've found there's a strong disconnect between hiring managers/recruiters who haven't been in the job market for several years and applicants actively looking for new employment. I've been on both sides recently and have to say I'm more sympathetic to the concerns of the job seekers voiced here than I am to the concerns of hiring managers. It takes less than a minute to skim a resume and determine if a candidate has the requisite skills/experience to merit a phone screen. On the flip side, it takes at least an order of magnitude longer to research a company, figure out what the role is actually about, and tailor a cover letter. Meanwhile, my experience has been that hit rates for applications typically follow the 80/20 rule for most people (80% go to a black hole, 20% get a favorable call or email response), regardless of how much time is spent buttering up a profile vs. just sending a resume. Unless you spend as much time as your applicants responding to their applications and telling them why they're not a good fit (which would be great), you're basically asking someone to work much harder than you for a less than even chance of getting a response back when they likely have better things to be doing.
ryandrake 10y ago
I don't think it's cynical at all. Unless you're one of those rare, elite, top-0.1% talents, who can literally pick and choose among offers from his favorite companies, the deck is very much stacked in the employer's favor--you often have to settle for what you get. "I'd like to be able to pay my rent this month, but gosh I don't have a passion about this company's area of interest so I think I'll pass on this job" -- said nobody ever.

by vecter 10y ago

SkyMarshal 10y ago

OP's answer may be a bit cynical, especially compared to a highly qualified candidate with a pick of many offers, but one thing he said does ring true: "...the rest remains to be discovered. During the interview process, for example." In my experience as both employee and employer, the interview is a discovery process for both sides. Prior to interviews, the candidate should have some hypothesis about why they want to work for you based on an extrapolation of publicly available information, and it's worth following up with them after the interview process to see if their hypothesis has been confirmed with more concrete information. If it's still vague, then there may be a problem. Works in reverse for the company too, of course.

mdorazio 10y ago

When was the last time you yourself actively looked for a new job? I've found there's a strong disconnect between hiring managers/recruiters who haven't been in the job market for several years and applicants actively looking for new employment. I've been on both sides recently and have to say I'm more sympathetic to the concerns of the job seekers voiced here than I am to the concerns of hiring managers. It takes less than a minute to skim a resume and determine if a candidate has the requisite skills/experience to merit a phone screen. On the flip side, it takes at least an order of magnitude longer to research a company, figure out what the role is actually about, and tailor a cover letter. Meanwhile, my experience has been that hit rates for applications typically follow the 80/20 rule for most people (80% go to a black hole, 20% get a favorable call or email response), regardless of how much time is spent buttering up a profile vs. just sending a resume. Unless you spend as much time as your applicants responding to their applications and telling them why they're not a good fit (which would be great), you're basically asking someone to work much harder than you for a less than even chance of getting a response back when they likely have better things to be doing.

ryandrake 10y ago

I don't think it's cynical at all. Unless you're one of those rare, elite, top-0.1% talents, who can literally pick and choose among offers from his favorite companies, the deck is very much stacked in the employer's favor--you often have to settle for what you get. "I'd like to be able to pay my rent this month, but gosh I don't have a passion about this company's area of interest so I think I'll pass on this job" -- said nobody ever.