5 ms·

You could stop asserting it's true even though you have no evidence. I won't hold my breath.

wpietri 10y ago
I don't believe I asked you, but sure, jump on in. Is there a contrary assertion you would like to make and present evidence for? I'm all ears. I should point out I can't stop asserting it's true, because I never started doing that. I said "I feel [...] I want [...] I think [...] For me, the theory [is ...]". Did you really not understand I was expressing my educated opinion?
- moduspol 10y ago
  Historically, most things done well have been by a group of like-minded people banding together to do something in a way that minimizes individuality and differences between them. They focus on a single vision and unite around it to become successful. You won't find a lot of studies on this because it's not a politically correct topic. Nobody wants to do the study that confirms you're better off just hiring whoever's the most qualified unless your customer base is dramatically different from your development team. I also feel like it's a false equivalency to suggest racial / gender diversity is in any way comparable to this: > I like having somebody with ops experience. Somebody else who loves the details of front-end work. Somebody else who has wrestled with deep optimizations. Those things actually relate to the work being done.
  - wpietri 10y ago
    Historically, most things have been terrible. There is no historical era I would like to live in more than the one we have now. Taking recent history, America has been enormously successful and prominent, especially in technology. And America, as a nation of immigrants, has unusually high levels of diversity and inclusion. What in modern America qualifies as non-diverse would still historically be very diverse. > Nobody wants to do the study that [...] It must be nice to be able to read the minds of thousands of academics around the world. I'd probably use my powers differently, but I guess you have to start somewhere. > hiring whoever's the most qualified Yes, I'm hiring the most qualified team for the problems we're tackling. > I also feel like it's a false equivalency It's nice when people share their feelings. Do you feel better? If so, good. That aside, I'm not sure why you think the feelings of J Random Commenter would be relevant to me as compared with my years of experience building and running teams. Given the throwaway account, even you don't appear to take your opinions very seriously.
    - moduspol 10y ago
      > Historically, most things have been terrible. There is no historical era I would like to live in more than the one we have now. Not even long history. I'm talking even our modern tech companies, where many were started out of a garage by a few very non-diverse people. > Taking recent history, America has been enormously successful and prominent, especially in technology. And America, as a nation of immigrants, has unusually high levels of diversity and inclusion. What in modern America qualifies as non-diverse would still historically be very diverse. I think you're right, although this doesn't make a strong case for diversifying our almost completely white/asian/male technology industry or any company. > It's nice when people share their feelings. Do you feel better? If so, good. "I also feel like it's a false equivalency" is the phrase I went with after softening down "your argument is dishonest and misleading," which is itself softened down from the original response of anyone rational watching you compare hiring both front end and back end developers to hiring "diverse" team members. > That aside, I'm not sure why you think the feelings of J Random Commenter would be relevant to me as compared with my years of experience building and running teams. Your comment I responded to asked for a contrary assertion. My apologies if I offended you, but I really think it's helpful for people in your position to be exposed to an alternative view. Few are going to honestly respond to things like this in person out of fear of being labeled racist / sexist, but these aren't racist or sexist views and they aren't uncommon. > Given the throwaway account, even you don't appear to take your opinions very seriously. I do take them seriously, but it's not prudent to say politically incorrect things on an account linked to your real identity. I apologize if the comment bothered you.
      - wpietri 10y ago
        > Your comment I responded to asked for a contrary assertion. No. No it did not. I asked oldmanjay if, having falsely criticized me for asserting things with evidence, he wanted to make a contrary assertion with evidence. This was a rhetorical device to draw an interlocutor out. I neither asked for nor wanted an Internet random to offer half-baked, unevidenced pro-racist, pro-sexist waffle, thanks. > I really think it's helpful for people in your position to be exposed to an alternative view. Yes, because I never before would have encountered people justifying the status quo by suggesting that racism and sexism don't exist or, if they do, are in fact optimum. Surely, there is nowhere else on the internet I might have been exposed to an "alternate" view. I'm sure nobody on HN has ever taken that position, let alone in response to me. Gosh, thank you for bringing something new into the world. > but it's not prudent to say politically incorrect things on an account linked to your real identity My, aren't you the brave one. As we see in the US elections your opinions are indeed politically correct for a notable portion of the American electorate. They have been politically correct for most of American history. What you're unwilling to do is to have a lot of people, the people you'd rather hang out with, think you an asshole. You lack the courage of your convictions. So instead of being openly pro-racism and pro-sexism, you'll do it quietly. Hoping, I presume, for the moment that the gang in white sheets get enough power that you can finally be "honest". If you want me to take you seriously, own your words. The internet and HN have a custom of offering a free hood dispenser to anybody wanting to comment. But that you only feel comfortable opining from under a white hood should tell you something. It certainly tells me something.

I don't believe I asked you, but sure, jump on in. Is there a contrary assertion you would like to make and present evidence for? I'm all ears. I should point out I can't stop asserting it's true, because I never started doing that. I said "I feel [...] I want [...] I think [...] For me, the theory [is ...]". Did you really not understand I was expressing my educated opinion?

moduspol 10y ago
Historically, most things done well have been by a group of like-minded people banding together to do something in a way that minimizes individuality and differences between them. They focus on a single vision and unite around it to become successful. You won't find a lot of studies on this because it's not a politically correct topic. Nobody wants to do the study that confirms you're better off just hiring whoever's the most qualified unless your customer base is dramatically different from your development team. I also feel like it's a false equivalency to suggest racial / gender diversity is in any way comparable to this: > I like having somebody with ops experience. Somebody else who loves the details of front-end work. Somebody else who has wrestled with deep optimizations. Those things actually relate to the work being done.
- wpietri 10y ago
  Historically, most things have been terrible. There is no historical era I would like to live in more than the one we have now. Taking recent history, America has been enormously successful and prominent, especially in technology. And America, as a nation of immigrants, has unusually high levels of diversity and inclusion. What in modern America qualifies as non-diverse would still historically be very diverse. > Nobody wants to do the study that [...] It must be nice to be able to read the minds of thousands of academics around the world. I'd probably use my powers differently, but I guess you have to start somewhere. > hiring whoever's the most qualified Yes, I'm hiring the most qualified team for the problems we're tackling. > I also feel like it's a false equivalency It's nice when people share their feelings. Do you feel better? If so, good. That aside, I'm not sure why you think the feelings of J Random Commenter would be relevant to me as compared with my years of experience building and running teams. Given the throwaway account, even you don't appear to take your opinions very seriously.
  - moduspol 10y ago
    > Historically, most things have been terrible. There is no historical era I would like to live in more than the one we have now. Not even long history. I'm talking even our modern tech companies, where many were started out of a garage by a few very non-diverse people. > Taking recent history, America has been enormously successful and prominent, especially in technology. And America, as a nation of immigrants, has unusually high levels of diversity and inclusion. What in modern America qualifies as non-diverse would still historically be very diverse. I think you're right, although this doesn't make a strong case for diversifying our almost completely white/asian/male technology industry or any company. > It's nice when people share their feelings. Do you feel better? If so, good. "I also feel like it's a false equivalency" is the phrase I went with after softening down "your argument is dishonest and misleading," which is itself softened down from the original response of anyone rational watching you compare hiring both front end and back end developers to hiring "diverse" team members. > That aside, I'm not sure why you think the feelings of J Random Commenter would be relevant to me as compared with my years of experience building and running teams. Your comment I responded to asked for a contrary assertion. My apologies if I offended you, but I really think it's helpful for people in your position to be exposed to an alternative view. Few are going to honestly respond to things like this in person out of fear of being labeled racist / sexist, but these aren't racist or sexist views and they aren't uncommon. > Given the throwaway account, even you don't appear to take your opinions very seriously. I do take them seriously, but it's not prudent to say politically incorrect things on an account linked to your real identity. I apologize if the comment bothered you.
    - wpietri 10y ago
      > Your comment I responded to asked for a contrary assertion. No. No it did not. I asked oldmanjay if, having falsely criticized me for asserting things with evidence, he wanted to make a contrary assertion with evidence. This was a rhetorical device to draw an interlocutor out. I neither asked for nor wanted an Internet random to offer half-baked, unevidenced pro-racist, pro-sexist waffle, thanks. > I really think it's helpful for people in your position to be exposed to an alternative view. Yes, because I never before would have encountered people justifying the status quo by suggesting that racism and sexism don't exist or, if they do, are in fact optimum. Surely, there is nowhere else on the internet I might have been exposed to an "alternate" view. I'm sure nobody on HN has ever taken that position, let alone in response to me. Gosh, thank you for bringing something new into the world. > but it's not prudent to say politically incorrect things on an account linked to your real identity My, aren't you the brave one. As we see in the US elections your opinions are indeed politically correct for a notable portion of the American electorate. They have been politically correct for most of American history. What you're unwilling to do is to have a lot of people, the people you'd rather hang out with, think you an asshole. You lack the courage of your convictions. So instead of being openly pro-racism and pro-sexism, you'll do it quietly. Hoping, I presume, for the moment that the gang in white sheets get enough power that you can finally be "honest". If you want me to take you seriously, own your words. The internet and HN have a custom of offering a free hood dispenser to anybody wanting to comment. But that you only feel comfortable opining from under a white hood should tell you something. It certainly tells me something.