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> because I think that's how you get both the best business results I don't think this has ever been proven, especially not in a field as technical as software

> because I think that's how you get both the best business results I don't think this has ever been proven, especially not in a field as technical as software engineering.

wpietri 10y ago
Very few human practices in software engineering have been proven to any level of rigor. But still, you have to make choices. There is usually no neutral position. You have to pick a particular language, a particular platform, a particular process, a particular team. For me, the theory's pretty clear. The hard part about software is not the typing; it's the thinking. It's my experience that thought monocultures are less effective, so I always hire for diversity along many axes. I like having somebody with ops experience. Somebody else who loves the details of front-end work. Somebody else who has wrestled with deep optimizations. Young and old, functional and OO, careful and bold, etc, etc. I take as much variety as I can get, because the more diversity you have, the more problems you can spot and solve quickly. An especially hard part about software is thinking about users. Good developers are always imagining the effect their choices have on the people they serve. But our imagination is limited by our experiences. Our empathy comes most easily for people like the ones we know. The more diverse your team, the more likely you are to spot and solve human problems. So sure, it's not scientifically proven to be optimum. But the default isn't either. If we only question the things that seem novel, that's just a fancy way of arguing for a sort of generic orthodoxy.
- FT_intern 10y ago
  I agree that diversity in software perspectives/technologies/experiences is important. However I don't see how racial or gender diversity plays a role in that.
  - wpietri 10y ago
    Ok. I believe you don't see it. Many people don't. How can I help you with that?
    - oldmanjay 10y ago
      You could stop asserting it's true even though you have no evidence. I won't hold my breath.
      - wpietri 10y ago
        I don't believe I asked you, but sure, jump on in. Is there a contrary assertion you would like to make and present evidence for? I'm all ears. I should point out I can't stop asserting it's true, because I never started doing that. I said "I feel [...] I want [...] I think [...] For me, the theory [is ...]". Did you really not understand I was expressing my educated opinion?
        moduspol 10y ago
        Historically, most things done well have been by a group of like-minded people banding together to do something in a way that minimizes individuality and differences between them. They focus on a single vision and unite around it to become successful. You won't find a lot of studies on this because it's not a politically correct topic. Nobody wants to do the study that confirms you're better off just hiring whoever's the most qualified unless your customer base is dramatically different from your development team. I also feel like it's a false equivalency to suggest racial / gender diversity is in any way comparable to this: > I like having somebody with ops experience. Somebody else who loves the details of front-end work. Somebody else who has wrestled with deep optimizations. Those things actually relate to the work being done.
        wpietri 10y ago
        Historically, most things have been terrible. There is no historical era I would like to live in more than the one we have now. Taking recent history, America has been enormously successful and prominent, especially in technology. And America, as a nation of immigrants, has unusually high levels of diversity and inclusion. What in modern America qualifies as non-diverse would still historically be very diverse. > Nobody wants to do the study that [...] It must be nice to be able to read the minds of thousands of academics around the world. I'd probably use my powers differently, but I guess you have to start somewhere. > hiring whoever's the most qualified Yes, I'm hiring the most qualified team for the problems we're tackling. > I also feel like it's a false equivalency It's nice when people share their feelings. Do you feel better? If so, good. That aside, I'm not sure why you think the feelings of J Random Commenter would be relevant to me as compared with my years of experience building and running teams. Given the throwaway account, even you don't appear to take your opinions very seriously.

> because I think that's how you get both the best business results I don't think this has ever been proven, especially not in a field as technical as software engineering.

wpietri 10y ago

Very few human practices in software engineering have been proven to any level of rigor. But still, you have to make choices. There is usually no neutral position. You have to pick a particular language, a particular platform, a particular process, a particular team. For me, the theory's pretty clear. The hard part about software is not the typing; it's the thinking. It's my experience that thought monocultures are less effective, so I always hire for diversity along many axes. I like having somebody with ops experience. Somebody else who loves the details of front-end work. Somebody else who has wrestled with deep optimizations. Young and old, functional and OO, careful and bold, etc, etc. I take as much variety as I can get, because the more diversity you have, the more problems you can spot and solve quickly. An especially hard part about software is thinking about users. Good developers are always imagining the effect their choices have on the people they serve. But our imagination is limited by our experiences. Our empathy comes most easily for people like the ones we know. The more diverse your team, the more likely you are to spot and solve human problems. So sure, it's not scientifically proven to be optimum. But the default isn't either. If we only question the things that seem novel, that's just a fancy way of arguing for a sort of generic orthodoxy.

FT_intern 10y ago
I agree that diversity in software perspectives/technologies/experiences is important. However I don't see how racial or gender diversity plays a role in that.
- wpietri 10y ago
  Ok. I believe you don't see it. Many people don't. How can I help you with that?
  - oldmanjay 10y ago
    You could stop asserting it's true even though you have no evidence. I won't hold my breath.
    - wpietri 10y ago
      I don't believe I asked you, but sure, jump on in. Is there a contrary assertion you would like to make and present evidence for? I'm all ears. I should point out I can't stop asserting it's true, because I never started doing that. I said "I feel [...] I want [...] I think [...] For me, the theory [is ...]". Did you really not understand I was expressing my educated opinion?
      - moduspol 10y ago
        Historically, most things done well have been by a group of like-minded people banding together to do something in a way that minimizes individuality and differences between them. They focus on a single vision and unite around it to become successful. You won't find a lot of studies on this because it's not a politically correct topic. Nobody wants to do the study that confirms you're better off just hiring whoever's the most qualified unless your customer base is dramatically different from your development team. I also feel like it's a false equivalency to suggest racial / gender diversity is in any way comparable to this: > I like having somebody with ops experience. Somebody else who loves the details of front-end work. Somebody else who has wrestled with deep optimizations. Those things actually relate to the work being done.
        wpietri 10y ago
        Historically, most things have been terrible. There is no historical era I would like to live in more than the one we have now. Taking recent history, America has been enormously successful and prominent, especially in technology. And America, as a nation of immigrants, has unusually high levels of diversity and inclusion. What in modern America qualifies as non-diverse would still historically be very diverse. > Nobody wants to do the study that [...] It must be nice to be able to read the minds of thousands of academics around the world. I'd probably use my powers differently, but I guess you have to start somewhere. > hiring whoever's the most qualified Yes, I'm hiring the most qualified team for the problems we're tackling. > I also feel like it's a false equivalency It's nice when people share their feelings. Do you feel better? If so, good. That aside, I'm not sure why you think the feelings of J Random Commenter would be relevant to me as compared with my years of experience building and running teams. Given the throwaway account, even you don't appear to take your opinions very seriously.