10 ms·

The power of things like this taking off is not what they are now, but what they can be. There are lots of real people with their own good reasons to not be tie

The power of things like this taking off is not what they are now, but what they can be. There are lots of real people with their own good reasons to not be tied to Google/Apple, and whats really impressive here is that unlike firefox OS, they are (in my opinion) doing this in a much better way. As this catches on, it only helps improve linux hardware (ARM) support, telephony applications for linux, and the like. As well as being able to have (or make for others) a truly remarkable user interface and apps. This is a mobile computer, running linux, running a desktop environment (not webkit, or Java VM, or closed source code) that only limits what you can make by your skill and imagination. Yes it looks pretty mediocre now, but that's because its waiting on you to get involved.

lytedev 10y ago
This seems like a perfect response to my comment. The question is: how? The website doesn't make it very clear to developers (after a fairly quick skim on my part, at least) as to how they can help with the initiative. I have a Nexus 6p, and it seems like my device isn't supported, but how can I maybe help with porting to a new device?
- benmcnelly 10y ago
  Yes, this is the pain point of things like this. It really will (most likely) take someone branching it off into a paid product to advance it faster (or) a very large amount of people getting involved. Traditionally these things grow slowly, but I am impressed at what they have so far.
paxcoder 10y ago
What is FirefoxOS' way of doing things, and why is it (in your opinion) wrong?
- throwaway2048 10y ago
  Firefox OS used the android closed source driver vendor centric model and a html/js frontend. It had most of the downsides of android (closed drivers, no updates after 6 months, buy a new device or get exploited, beholden to vendors, OEMs and telcos which invariably suck, central control over software distribution), and zero of the upsides (abysmal performance [even the dialer was a laggy mess], lack of software) Except for the fact you might trust Mozilla more than google, it wasn't anymore meaningfully open than android, and suffered crippling drawbacks in comparison. Nobody except a few developers cared that you can write apps in html/js.
  - lphnull 10y ago
    Why did the world abandon Maemo? I had a nokia n900, and I swear, it was the greatest phone I ever used. The UI was beautiful, and for 2009, its performance was stunning. I got so used to it and immersed in the "maemo" way of doing things, that when I "upgraded" to a "modern" android phone, I felt as though I had taken a step backwards, despite having hardware that's theoretically better!
    - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
      Nokia went under, and the world outside of tech cares more about the shiny than the capabilities.
      - ptaipale 10y ago
        Actually, Nokia - under Elop's leadership - decided to go to Windows Phone platform for mobile phones, and discontinue Maemo. That WP thing didn't go so well. However Nokia as a company did not go under; it is still very much there, particularly in telecom infra business.
        digi_owl 10y ago
        It seems that very few people these days knows that all the big name European mobile brands (Ericsson, Nokia, Siemens) were also big name infrastructure brands. And that two of them still operate (Ericsson and Nokia, the latter having bought Siemens infrastructure division).
        throwaway2048 10y ago
        As was Motorola in the USA
        digi_owl 10y ago
        Touche.
lphnull 10y ago
I used to have that. It was my Nokia n900. I was able to pull up live thumbnail previews of all apps running in the background, and this included live simultaneous previews of: youtube videos in a web browser, games, and Debian, without lag. Try doing that on today's technology. It had a wonderfully acurate resistive touch screen that was pressure senstive that was really good for drawing and coloring! The camera would start up immediately as soon as I opened the shutter, even while the screen is off and in a sleep state. My modern android device takes so much longer to even get the shutter ready. I loved always having access to a physical keyboard and an actual root linux shell out of the box without any hacking. I loved that my n900 behaved more like a computer and less like "mobile" device. Too bad Nokia decided to end support for the n900. Most of its developers and lots of its users abandoned ship, and now I only use it as a camera because the n900 is stuck in 2009, and the web in 2016 is so bloated and heavy that nothing- not even the web browser or the unupdated apps- are usable now.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  I still want an N900 now. The web be damned: it could still browse HN. Nowadays, the next best thing is the Pyra, but that still has't been released. By the way, have you seen the neo900 project? It sounds like you would be interested, although it is also incomplete.
  - lphnull 10y ago
    I spent $300+ (way too much!) for my n900 and I still think it was worth it. It was my replacement for my tmobile g1 phone. The n900 is everything that I thought the g1 was going to be, but wasn't. In a way, it was my fault for blindly creating my own hype over a first generation product I knew nothing about. The g1 turned out to be my bad and disappointing foray into smart phones. Also, yes I have heard of the neo900 project, but am sad that the project is so far from its goals. There will never be enough n900 users to meet a crowdfund. :(
    - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
      I wouldn't be so sure. There are a lot of N900 users and fans. Another interesting project which might fill my desire for a true mobile computer (if only I could afford it) is the Pyra, the more powerful successor to the Pandora. But at $~500-$~600, it may not be worth it, and it still hasn't actually released yet (although the company did make the Pandora, so they have a history of Getting Stuff Done). If you're going on the cheap, you can always hack together a Raspberry Pi and a tiny screen, keyboard, and battery into something semi-workable, and use a phone for the rest.
djsumdog 10y ago
The trouble isn't the software. I'd gladly jump onto Ubuntu Touch and wanted to try out FireFox OS when it was still maintained, but the trouble is the hardware. I didn't want to buy a Nexus, which seems like the only device that's the first to be supported by any alt-OS. Back in the late 90s/early 2000s, you could just run Linux on your x86. Sometimes half your hardware didn't work, but as long as you could get Ethernet and display you were in pretty good shape usually. The thing is, you could install it. You could try it. With ARM, everything is so specialized. Looking at the forum posts for this thing, half of the threads are about porting to devices. The manufactures have no incentive to standardize the platform. They customize to a device and it's better for them if you just throw it out in two years when they drop support. A limited number of hobby devices now use the device tree configuration, but the ARM platform is far from being as standard as Intel or Power. If the Ubuntu Edge had been funded, I think we'd be in a difference space with at least a handful of devices that had some standardization (if only to accommodate Canonical). As it stands, ARM fragmentation is a huge problem for hackers/devs.
- rihegher 10y ago
  You might want to try sailfishOS on a fairphone which work ok for basic stuff
  - skykooler 10y ago
    And sailfish OS's hardware support is based on libhybris, which basically relies on using Android drivers for phones
- codedokode 10y ago
  Regarding drivers, they are probably present as linux kernel modules in original phone firmware. Cannot they be reused in a custom open firmware? Of course you might need a userspace components to control hardware too which is a problem. Also SOC manufacturer usually has the drivers reference code but he might not publish it.
  - Grishnakh 10y ago
agumonkey 10y ago
I never liked KDE looks nor ergonomics. Nor their attempts at grand projects (plasma makes me cringe everytime I see the word now). But I appreciate "simpler" open linux platform for smartphones. Wish them the best. ps: I was actually looking into FDroid to free myself a little from Android locks, wishing for a simple linux + ssh + any signed code I wish.
- macco 10y ago
  Me too, then I tried Plasma 5.8 and I am delighted. It is by far the best DE I ever used - and yes, macOS included. The polish it has is unbelievable.
  - agumonkey 10y ago
    Around KDE 5 first releases I had a thing for it. But I had what resembles javascript fatigue. The KDE world was too much of a moving target; also, but that's on me, I was fed up with DEs, except for the basics GUI (think OS2, Win3/95) I felt they provided no value over emacs, so that's what I ended up with wmii,emacs,chrome.
  - canada_dry 10y ago
    Well, the bar is pretty damn low in Unity (IMHO)... terribly inconsistent UI e.g. they seldom follow long set conventions on how field focus and basic keyboarding behavior should work in windows and dialogs. I find it very, very frustrating and am giving KDE plasma a shot.

lytedev 10y ago

This seems like a perfect response to my comment. The question is: how? The website doesn't make it very clear to developers (after a fairly quick skim on my part, at least) as to how they can help with the initiative. I have a Nexus 6p, and it seems like my device isn't supported, but how can I maybe help with porting to a new device?

benmcnelly 10y ago
Yes, this is the pain point of things like this. It really will (most likely) take someone branching it off into a paid product to advance it faster (or) a very large amount of people getting involved. Traditionally these things grow slowly, but I am impressed at what they have so far.

paxcoder 10y ago

What is FirefoxOS' way of doing things, and why is it (in your opinion) wrong?

throwaway2048 10y ago
Firefox OS used the android closed source driver vendor centric model and a html/js frontend. It had most of the downsides of android (closed drivers, no updates after 6 months, buy a new device or get exploited, beholden to vendors, OEMs and telcos which invariably suck, central control over software distribution), and zero of the upsides (abysmal performance [even the dialer was a laggy mess], lack of software) Except for the fact you might trust Mozilla more than google, it wasn't anymore meaningfully open than android, and suffered crippling drawbacks in comparison. Nobody except a few developers cared that you can write apps in html/js.
- lphnull 10y ago
  Why did the world abandon Maemo? I had a nokia n900, and I swear, it was the greatest phone I ever used. The UI was beautiful, and for 2009, its performance was stunning. I got so used to it and immersed in the "maemo" way of doing things, that when I "upgraded" to a "modern" android phone, I felt as though I had taken a step backwards, despite having hardware that's theoretically better!
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    Nokia went under, and the world outside of tech cares more about the shiny than the capabilities.
    - ptaipale 10y ago
      Actually, Nokia - under Elop's leadership - decided to go to Windows Phone platform for mobile phones, and discontinue Maemo. That WP thing didn't go so well. However Nokia as a company did not go under; it is still very much there, particularly in telecom infra business.
      - digi_owl 10y ago
        It seems that very few people these days knows that all the big name European mobile brands (Ericsson, Nokia, Siemens) were also big name infrastructure brands. And that two of them still operate (Ericsson and Nokia, the latter having bought Siemens infrastructure division).
        throwaway2048 10y ago
        As was Motorola in the USA
        digi_owl 10y ago
        Touche.

lphnull 10y ago

I used to have that. It was my Nokia n900. I was able to pull up live thumbnail previews of all apps running in the background, and this included live simultaneous previews of: youtube videos in a web browser, games, and Debian, without lag. Try doing that on today's technology. It had a wonderfully acurate resistive touch screen that was pressure senstive that was really good for drawing and coloring! The camera would start up immediately as soon as I opened the shutter, even while the screen is off and in a sleep state. My modern android device takes so much longer to even get the shutter ready. I loved always having access to a physical keyboard and an actual root linux shell out of the box without any hacking. I loved that my n900 behaved more like a computer and less like "mobile" device. Too bad Nokia decided to end support for the n900. Most of its developers and lots of its users abandoned ship, and now I only use it as a camera because the n900 is stuck in 2009, and the web in 2016 is so bloated and heavy that nothing- not even the web browser or the unupdated apps- are usable now.

qwertyuiop924 10y ago
I still want an N900 now. The web be damned: it could still browse HN. Nowadays, the next best thing is the Pyra, but that still has't been released. By the way, have you seen the neo900 project? It sounds like you would be interested, although it is also incomplete.
- lphnull 10y ago
  I spent $300+ (way too much!) for my n900 and I still think it was worth it. It was my replacement for my tmobile g1 phone. The n900 is everything that I thought the g1 was going to be, but wasn't. In a way, it was my fault for blindly creating my own hype over a first generation product I knew nothing about. The g1 turned out to be my bad and disappointing foray into smart phones. Also, yes I have heard of the neo900 project, but am sad that the project is so far from its goals. There will never be enough n900 users to meet a crowdfund. :(
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    I wouldn't be so sure. There are a lot of N900 users and fans. Another interesting project which might fill my desire for a true mobile computer (if only I could afford it) is the Pyra, the more powerful successor to the Pandora. But at $~500-$~600, it may not be worth it, and it still hasn't actually released yet (although the company did make the Pandora, so they have a history of Getting Stuff Done). If you're going on the cheap, you can always hack together a Raspberry Pi and a tiny screen, keyboard, and battery into something semi-workable, and use a phone for the rest.

djsumdog 10y ago

The trouble isn't the software. I'd gladly jump onto Ubuntu Touch and wanted to try out FireFox OS when it was still maintained, but the trouble is the hardware. I didn't want to buy a Nexus, which seems like the only device that's the first to be supported by any alt-OS. Back in the late 90s/early 2000s, you could just run Linux on your x86. Sometimes half your hardware didn't work, but as long as you could get Ethernet and display you were in pretty good shape usually. The thing is, you could install it. You could try it. With ARM, everything is so specialized. Looking at the forum posts for this thing, half of the threads are about porting to devices. The manufactures have no incentive to standardize the platform. They customize to a device and it's better for them if you just throw it out in two years when they drop support. A limited number of hobby devices now use the device tree configuration, but the ARM platform is far from being as standard as Intel or Power. If the Ubuntu Edge had been funded, I think we'd be in a difference space with at least a handful of devices that had some standardization (if only to accommodate Canonical). As it stands, ARM fragmentation is a huge problem for hackers/devs.

rihegher 10y ago
You might want to try sailfishOS on a fairphone which work ok for basic stuff
- skykooler 10y ago
  And sailfish OS's hardware support is based on libhybris, which basically relies on using Android drivers for phones
codedokode 10y ago
Regarding drivers, they are probably present as linux kernel modules in original phone firmware. Cannot they be reused in a custom open firmware? Of course you might need a userspace components to control hardware too which is a problem. Also SOC manufacturer usually has the drivers reference code but he might not publish it.
- Grishnakh 10y ago

agumonkey 10y ago

I never liked KDE looks nor ergonomics. Nor their attempts at grand projects (plasma makes me cringe everytime I see the word now). But I appreciate "simpler" open linux platform for smartphones. Wish them the best. ps: I was actually looking into FDroid to free myself a little from Android locks, wishing for a simple linux + ssh + any signed code I wish.

macco 10y ago
Me too, then I tried Plasma 5.8 and I am delighted. It is by far the best DE I ever used - and yes, macOS included. The polish it has is unbelievable.
- agumonkey 10y ago
  Around KDE 5 first releases I had a thing for it. But I had what resembles javascript fatigue. The KDE world was too much of a moving target; also, but that's on me, I was fed up with DEs, except for the basics GUI (think OS2, Win3/95) I felt they provided no value over emacs, so that's what I ended up with wmii,emacs,chrome.
- canada_dry 10y ago
  Well, the bar is pretty damn low in Unity (IMHO)... terribly inconsistent UI e.g. they seldom follow long set conventions on how field focus and basic keyboarding behavior should work in windows and dialogs. I find it very, very frustrating and am giving KDE plasma a shot.