4 ms·

> You honestly believe that a first-hire, in addition to receiving a competitive salary + benefits, is also owed >5% equity? Competitive salary for top devs at

> You honestly believe that a first-hire, in addition to receiving a competitive salary + benefits, is also owed >5% equity? Competitive salary for top devs at big companies is reaching $250-350k/year. If your startup is paying that well then sure it doesn't need to offer a lot of equity. Most of the startups ive interviewed at over the last year don't even come close so they damn well should be offering a lot more equity to make up for it.

meritt 10y ago
Engineers making $300k/yr aren't interested in first-hire jobs over at the latest "Uber for X" YC-backed company. There will be exceptions, certainly, but that's going to be incredibly rare. First hires tend to be mid-level aspiring engineers looking for make a name for themselves and get in early but for whatever risk-adverse reason aren't looking for a cofounder type role. They usually need a steady paycheck. Obviously there's always going to be a balance between equity and salary, but the hypothetical scenario we're talking about here is "first employee" which tends to mean a salaried position with benefits.
- acconrad 10y ago
  > whatever risk-adverse reason aren't looking for a cofounder type role Or can't get it - because they don't have the idea to be a cofounder, or don't have the experience to be a CTO. And to address your comment in the higher tier, I never said the salary had to be competitive - in fact when I was a first employee my salary was cut in half (and my salaary was not that high by any stretch beforehand), but my equity was in a few percentage points. So yes, my point stands, if it requires very little capital or risk to found a company, but it's vital that you hire help, I would expect that you give them meaningful equity, especially if they're doing a great deal of the effort and labor to get there. I don't think that's entitled, I think that's being fair to your employees who are busting their ass to make you rich.
- sheepmullet 10y ago
  > the hypothetical scenario we're talking about here is "first employee" which tends to mean a salaried position with benefits. Agreed. Which is why they aren't getting co-founder levels of equity. 5% for a key position sounds about right. But if you want them to go all-in on your startup then you are mad not to compensate them for it. If you want mis-aligned incentives for a very key position then go right ahead but don't call someone entitled for wanting to be compensated fairly for the risk and responsibilities.
ryanSrich 10y ago
> Competitive salary for top devs at big companies is reaching $250-350k/year In less than 3 cities. So to say this as a universal truth is just false.
- sheepmullet 10y ago
  Sure but they are the same cities where it's easy for startups to raise funding and be acquired. It is much more risky to join an early stage startup elsewhere. And so equity elsewhere should be bumped even higher to compensate.
farright 10y ago
You're assuming that startups are hiring people who would otherwise be top devs at big companies. I see no reason to think this. Not all developers are equally good at their job, and if we see some getting paid effectively much more than others, the most natural explanation is that the higher paid ones are better developers. Otherwise, why would that startup employees take the deal?
- sheepmullet 10y ago
  I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying it's not being entitled to want high levels of equity as a first employee. It all depends on what you bring to the table.

meritt 10y ago

Engineers making $300k/yr aren't interested in first-hire jobs over at the latest "Uber for X" YC-backed company. There will be exceptions, certainly, but that's going to be incredibly rare. First hires tend to be mid-level aspiring engineers looking for make a name for themselves and get in early but for whatever risk-adverse reason aren't looking for a cofounder type role. They usually need a steady paycheck. Obviously there's always going to be a balance between equity and salary, but the hypothetical scenario we're talking about here is "first employee" which tends to mean a salaried position with benefits.

acconrad 10y ago
> whatever risk-adverse reason aren't looking for a cofounder type role Or can't get it - because they don't have the idea to be a cofounder, or don't have the experience to be a CTO. And to address your comment in the higher tier, I never said the salary had to be competitive - in fact when I was a first employee my salary was cut in half (and my salaary was not that high by any stretch beforehand), but my equity was in a few percentage points. So yes, my point stands, if it requires very little capital or risk to found a company, but it's vital that you hire help, I would expect that you give them meaningful equity, especially if they're doing a great deal of the effort and labor to get there. I don't think that's entitled, I think that's being fair to your employees who are busting their ass to make you rich.
sheepmullet 10y ago
> the hypothetical scenario we're talking about here is "first employee" which tends to mean a salaried position with benefits. Agreed. Which is why they aren't getting co-founder levels of equity. 5% for a key position sounds about right. But if you want them to go all-in on your startup then you are mad not to compensate them for it. If you want mis-aligned incentives for a very key position then go right ahead but don't call someone entitled for wanting to be compensated fairly for the risk and responsibilities.

ryanSrich 10y ago

> Competitive salary for top devs at big companies is reaching $250-350k/year In less than 3 cities. So to say this as a universal truth is just false.

sheepmullet 10y ago
Sure but they are the same cities where it's easy for startups to raise funding and be acquired. It is much more risky to join an early stage startup elsewhere. And so equity elsewhere should be bumped even higher to compensate.

farright 10y ago

You're assuming that startups are hiring people who would otherwise be top devs at big companies. I see no reason to think this. Not all developers are equally good at their job, and if we see some getting paid effectively much more than others, the most natural explanation is that the higher paid ones are better developers. Otherwise, why would that startup employees take the deal?

sheepmullet 10y ago
I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying it's not being entitled to want high levels of equity as a first employee. It all depends on what you bring to the table.