7 ms·

That simply is not true. Most of the people that likes commodities of UNIX, nice UI and long battery life in combination with nice hardware uses Macs. Even peop

That simply is not true. Most of the people that likes commodities of UNIX, nice UI and long battery life in combination with nice hardware uses Macs. Even people who do not do any iOS development. There is no such thing as Mac Dev tools, (maybe just iOS related but there aren't many that you do for that process besides Xcode). I use my Mac like I used Linux and FreeBSD, package manager check, nice terminal check, Emacs check, clang check, JetBrains' stuff check. (only two programs that are exclusive to macOS are Xcode and iTerm2, at least in my case). Edit: OK why downvotes? Did I say something that is not true? Matter of taste, but seems like it's new trend to hate on Apple computers. Its cool now right? Why can't people just move on... Edit2: Forgot that this is HN and that every word is meant literally. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

treve 10y ago
OP should have said "many app developers". The implications are a bit different because it doesn't mean 'all' or 'the majority'. Lots of people will stick with Apple hardware or the mac operating system I'm sure, but I do agree that I think a lot of people will cross over once some of these barriers are removed.
- Philipp__ 10y ago
  And it is okay! Different devices, different systems for different people. But what I really do not get is the amount of rage that is produced in the community, if you do not like certain device simply do not buy it, and do not bash people that do, because if there are reasons for you not to like it that doesn't mean it's same case for everyone else. Anyway back to the story, I think that number of people that use Macs only for iOS dev is existent but not really that big. Except platform specific development (like .NET/Windows, or iOS/macOS for that matter), most of development is pretty platform agnostic (where you draw the line here is UNIX-like vs Windows OS). App developers will have to stick to Macs, unless Apple go totally insane and release dev tools for iOS on Linux (which won't happen in my opinion, because of the anatomy of both macOS and Linux). So OPs comment doesn't make sense from the beginning (both technically and economically for Apple).
my123 10y ago
No, Windows had an Unix subsystem since forever, and WSL helps switchers more than ever actually.
- Philipp__ 10y ago
  And that is related to which part of my post, because I do not see the connection? I didn't mention Windows. And good luck with wrestling with Windows doing UNIX things. It had it, but it was not comparable to Linux and BSDs. Now it is better situation, much better, but still I would rather spin some BSD based system in VM, than try and use Ubuntu through WSL.
  - my123 10y ago
    SUA(SubSystem for Unix-based Applications) is litterally a BSD fork...
    - zymhan 10y ago
      You mean the Unix subsystem they made just to claim POSIX compatibility, that they totally abandoned in recent Windows versions?
      - JdeBP 10y ago
        No, xe does not. The subsystem that was made just to claim POSIX compatibility was the subsystem that preceded Interix. Interix was developed outwith Microsoft, and replaced the old POSIX subsystem. It was Windows NT's second POSIX subsystem, and it very much is not just a sop for the sake of checking a requirements checkbox. It's a fairly usable POSIX environment, with a large toolset, proper terminal emulations, pseudo-terminals, interoperability with non-POSIX processes including visibility with (an enhanced) ps and the ability to send signals to Win32 processes, an actual init and inetd, and an X server. Stephen Walli has stated that it started as a fork of 4.4BSD-Lite. * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11560510 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11560510 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11416392 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11416392
Rooster61 10y ago
> Anyone that likes commodities of UNIX... This is an untrue generalization. I know people who have a Mac, yet do all of their actual coding within containers set up to use some flavor of Linux and never really touch the underlying OS. Macs DO have solid, reliable hardware underneath, but the insinuation that there is no reason you need to run a true POSIX compliant OS vs MacOS is definitely not a hard and fast truth.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- Sanddancer 10y ago
  OS X is posix-compliant. It doesn't implement certain GNUisms but depending on any vendor-specific problems is going to be a pain point.
  - Rooster61 10y ago
    So it is. I was under the impression that its microkernel approach, specifically the system calls directed to Mach, caused it to deviate from the standard. You learn something new every day.
  - pcwalton 10y ago
    Darwin is very much not POSIX-compliant. It may aim to be, but there are so many blatant unfixed bugs (broken poll, broken cmsg, etc.) and missing features (ptrace, etc.) that porting work is frequently necessary.
    - TickleSteve 10y ago
      Yes, it is POSIX compliant. Its also an official UNIX. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5785516/is-osx-a-posix-os http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5785516/is-osx-a-posix-os https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_UNIX_Specification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_UNIX_Specification Presence of bugs does not preclude you from being compliant to the spec. ...also... Linux is not officially compliant to either one.
lholden 10y ago
I use Linux for that. I have a pretty and modern UI, all of the unix commodities I want... all on a brand new and powerful laptop that has plenty of battery life. (My last laptop... a Samsung Series 9... would last 14+ hours on a charge. My current laptop is a bit more power hungry... but it has a fairly beefy i7 and such. It still gets me through the day though) It's just a matter of momentum... and Apple certainly has that in spades. I did switch to using MacOS for several years... but am now back on Linux. It's just a better for development for me. But hey... Linux has been my primary workhorse since the 90s... so I am certainly biased. I did give the MacOS bandwagon a try though. :D
- Philipp__ 10y ago
  Wow, that is impressive battery life. I am curious, what Linux distributions you used? (especially for those back in the 90s :D) I was stuck on Gentoo than Arch for the most of the time.
  - rimantas 10y ago
    Probably just MakingStuffUp.iso
    - ori_b 10y ago
      I get about 10 to 12 on my x240 with Debian if I turn down the screen brightness. Especially if I am mostly in vim.
    - true_religion 10y ago
      I'd get about 9-10 hours on a Macbook Pro simply lazily web browsing. This is theoretically reported battery life, however. I never actually let it run down to 0. It's possible the last 10% would have vanished in 30 minutes instead of ~2 hours like it claimed. I can certainly believe a Linux machine can get 14hrs. It's just a matter of having a bigger battery, and a processor that will step-down its speed when its not needed.
    - owaislone 10y ago
lmm 10y ago
> That simply is not true. Most of the people that likes commodities of UNIX, nice UI and long battery life in combination with nice hardware uses Macs. Even people who do not do any iOS development. Citation needed. Some people like the mac UI sure, but there are people who hate it too. People who use a mac only because they have to to develop for iOS or OSX certainly do exist.
- larrik 10y ago
  I was indeed one.
- pYQAJ6Zm 10y ago
  I used OS X for a while. The MBP was provided to me by my employer. I got tired of it in about one year. Now the laptop, which I barely use (my desktop runs circles around it), is running a Linux distribution. More comfortable UI, comparably solid, (usually) seamless software upgrades and better management, more customizable, etc.

treve 10y ago

OP should have said "many app developers". The implications are a bit different because it doesn't mean 'all' or 'the majority'. Lots of people will stick with Apple hardware or the mac operating system I'm sure, but I do agree that I think a lot of people will cross over once some of these barriers are removed.

Philipp__ 10y ago
And it is okay! Different devices, different systems for different people. But what I really do not get is the amount of rage that is produced in the community, if you do not like certain device simply do not buy it, and do not bash people that do, because if there are reasons for you not to like it that doesn't mean it's same case for everyone else. Anyway back to the story, I think that number of people that use Macs only for iOS dev is existent but not really that big. Except platform specific development (like .NET/Windows, or iOS/macOS for that matter), most of development is pretty platform agnostic (where you draw the line here is UNIX-like vs Windows OS). App developers will have to stick to Macs, unless Apple go totally insane and release dev tools for iOS on Linux (which won't happen in my opinion, because of the anatomy of both macOS and Linux). So OPs comment doesn't make sense from the beginning (both technically and economically for Apple).

my123 10y ago

No, Windows had an Unix subsystem since forever, and WSL helps switchers more than ever actually.

Philipp__ 10y ago
And that is related to which part of my post, because I do not see the connection? I didn't mention Windows. And good luck with wrestling with Windows doing UNIX things. It had it, but it was not comparable to Linux and BSDs. Now it is better situation, much better, but still I would rather spin some BSD based system in VM, than try and use Ubuntu through WSL.
- my123 10y ago
  SUA(SubSystem for Unix-based Applications) is litterally a BSD fork...
  - zymhan 10y ago
    You mean the Unix subsystem they made just to claim POSIX compatibility, that they totally abandoned in recent Windows versions?
    - JdeBP 10y ago
      No, xe does not. The subsystem that was made just to claim POSIX compatibility was the subsystem that preceded Interix. Interix was developed outwith Microsoft, and replaced the old POSIX subsystem. It was Windows NT's second POSIX subsystem, and it very much is not just a sop for the sake of checking a requirements checkbox. It's a fairly usable POSIX environment, with a large toolset, proper terminal emulations, pseudo-terminals, interoperability with non-POSIX processes including visibility with (an enhanced) ps and the ability to send signals to Win32 processes, an actual init and inetd, and an X server. Stephen Walli has stated that it started as a fork of 4.4BSD-Lite. * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11560510 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11560510 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11416392 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11416392

Rooster61 10y ago

> Anyone that likes commodities of UNIX... This is an untrue generalization. I know people who have a Mac, yet do all of their actual coding within containers set up to use some flavor of Linux and never really touch the underlying OS. Macs DO have solid, reliable hardware underneath, but the insinuation that there is no reason you need to run a true POSIX compliant OS vs MacOS is definitely not a hard and fast truth.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Sanddancer 10y ago
OS X is posix-compliant. It doesn't implement certain GNUisms but depending on any vendor-specific problems is going to be a pain point.
- Rooster61 10y ago
  So it is. I was under the impression that its microkernel approach, specifically the system calls directed to Mach, caused it to deviate from the standard. You learn something new every day.
- pcwalton 10y ago
  Darwin is very much not POSIX-compliant. It may aim to be, but there are so many blatant unfixed bugs (broken poll, broken cmsg, etc.) and missing features (ptrace, etc.) that porting work is frequently necessary.
  - TickleSteve 10y ago
    Yes, it is POSIX compliant. Its also an official UNIX. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5785516/is-osx-a-posix-os http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5785516/is-osx-a-posix-os https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_UNIX_Specification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_UNIX_Specification Presence of bugs does not preclude you from being compliant to the spec. ...also... Linux is not officially compliant to either one.

lholden 10y ago

I use Linux for that. I have a pretty and modern UI, all of the unix commodities I want... all on a brand new and powerful laptop that has plenty of battery life. (My last laptop... a Samsung Series 9... would last 14+ hours on a charge. My current laptop is a bit more power hungry... but it has a fairly beefy i7 and such. It still gets me through the day though) It's just a matter of momentum... and Apple certainly has that in spades. I did switch to using MacOS for several years... but am now back on Linux. It's just a better for development for me. But hey... Linux has been my primary workhorse since the 90s... so I am certainly biased. I did give the MacOS bandwagon a try though. :D

Philipp__ 10y ago
Wow, that is impressive battery life. I am curious, what Linux distributions you used? (especially for those back in the 90s :D) I was stuck on Gentoo than Arch for the most of the time.
- rimantas 10y ago
  Probably just MakingStuffUp.iso
  - ori_b 10y ago
    I get about 10 to 12 on my x240 with Debian if I turn down the screen brightness. Especially if I am mostly in vim.
  - true_religion 10y ago
    I'd get about 9-10 hours on a Macbook Pro simply lazily web browsing. This is theoretically reported battery life, however. I never actually let it run down to 0. It's possible the last 10% would have vanished in 30 minutes instead of ~2 hours like it claimed. I can certainly believe a Linux machine can get 14hrs. It's just a matter of having a bigger battery, and a processor that will step-down its speed when its not needed.
  - owaislone 10y ago

lmm 10y ago

> That simply is not true. Most of the people that likes commodities of UNIX, nice UI and long battery life in combination with nice hardware uses Macs. Even people who do not do any iOS development. Citation needed. Some people like the mac UI sure, but there are people who hate it too. People who use a mac only because they have to to develop for iOS or OSX certainly do exist.

larrik 10y ago
I was indeed one.
pYQAJ6Zm 10y ago
I used OS X for a while. The MBP was provided to me by my employer. I got tired of it in about one year. Now the laptop, which I barely use (my desktop runs circles around it), is running a Linux distribution. More comfortable UI, comparably solid, (usually) seamless software upgrades and better management, more customizable, etc.