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Retailers complaining about how Amazon is creating a race-to-the-bottom with free shipping calls to mind horse vets complaining about how automobiles are eating

Retailers complaining about how Amazon is creating a race-to-the-bottom with free shipping calls to mind horse vets complaining about how automobiles are eating into their lifestyles. It's sooooo unfair! Amazon is changing the world the way Standard Oil changed the world. If it's going in my house and it's not groceries, it's coming from Amazon. The buying and shipping experience is unparalleled. Amazon isn't one of these bespoke SF-only investor-moneygrab services, it's real technological progress on a world scale.

kgwgk 10y ago
Remember the times when you had to go to some shady basement to buy counterfeit products? Amazon is so much more convenient!
vkou 10y ago
> Retailers complaining about how Amazon is creating a race-to-the-bottom with free shipping calls to mind horse vets complaining about how automobiles are eating into their lifestyles. It's sooooo unfair! The horse vets found other employment. The horses, by far and large, were butchered. The question these days is - which of us are the vets, and which of us are the horses?
- bostonpete 10y ago
  The vets were labor, the horses were capital/property. I'd say none of us are the horses.
  - vkou 10y ago
    The horses had no skills that were useful in the post-automobile world - at least, no skills that justified the expense of paying^Wfeeding them.
- snrplfth 10y ago
  Well, most of the horses weren't necessarily eaten before their time - it's just that they weren't replaced, because the price of new horses went down quickly so horse breeders stopped raising so many foals. The working lifespan of a horse is at best 20 years.
JackFr 10y ago
> Retailers complaining about how Amazon is creating a race-to-the-bottom with free shipping calls Only thing worse is 20 years of financial journalists predicting Amazon's unsustainability and forthcoming demise.
- hueving 10y ago
  Well the store itself is really unsustainable. It's aws bringing in profit.
Spooky23 10y ago
> Amazon is changing the world the way Standard Oil changed the world. Standard Oil established itself as the nation's tollbooth.
- vinceguidry 10y ago
  Sure. Pay the toll, get free, virtually unlimited energy. Were you expecting them to do it for free?
  - Spooky23 10y ago
    I expect a competitive marketplace.
    - vinceguidry 10y ago
      The market for oil was competitive. You should read the book Titan by Ron Chernow. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000XUDGHG/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000XUDGHG/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?... At no point was Standard Oil the only purveyor of oil products in the world. They enjoyed a dominant position akin to Microsoft's, but were unable to hold onto it forever. What Rockefeller eliminated was the refining industry. And he did so starting out as one of those refiners. Just as Amazon was at one point just another online retailer, Rockefeller was once just one of the many many refiners dotting the Cleveland countryside. He did it through his pure, amazing business acumen. He made better products than his rivals, and managed his money better. He built such good relations with the banks that they would pull up to him as he was walking down the street and offer him loan terms. Industries go through periods of consolidation and breakup all the time. It's just a necessary part of the evolution of the economy and society.
      - Spooky23 10y ago
        Standard Oil transitioned into a vertically integrated model that controlled 90% of the market in the 1903-1906 timeframe. Clearly Amazon has ambitions to do something similar, which isn't a good thing if you don't work for Amazon. From the government's anti-trust filing: > Almost everywhere the rates from the shipping points used exclusively, or almost exclusively, by the Standard are relatively lower than the rates from the shipping points of its competitors. Rates have been made low to let the Standard into markets, or they have been made high to keep its competitors out of markets. Trifling differences in distances are made an excuse for large differences in rates favorable to the Standard Oil Co., while large differences in distances are ignored where they are against the Standard. Sometimes connecting roads prorate on oil—that is, make through rates which are lower than the combination of local rates; sometimes they refuse to prorate; but in either case the result of their policy is to favor the Standard Oil Co. Different methods are used in different places and under different conditions, but the net result is that from Maine to California the general arrangement of open rates on petroleum oil is such as to give the Standard an unreasonable advantage over its competitors.
nickparker 10y ago
It also gives me a fair deal of schadenfreude (or something in the same vein) to see them missing Amazon's end game in the retail space: The cost of transportation is going to plummet as we move to electric and driverless vehicles. Amazon's game is the same as Uber's, lose money and win the market, then sit on your customer base as the same price points suddenly become highly profitable. But Mr. Schwartz is sure free shipping is an unsustainable trend.
gdulli 10y ago
> Amazon is creating a race-to-the-bottom with free shipping This hasn't been true for a while. For at least several years they've been going in the other direction with free shipping. They've raised the minimum purchase requirement for getting free shipping twice in the last few years ($25 to $35 to $49) and the other way to get "free" shipping isn't free, it's $99/year and you have to make a certain number of orders per year to get it to amortize to a reasonable shipping cost (which still won't be free.)

kgwgk 10y ago

Remember the times when you had to go to some shady basement to buy counterfeit products? Amazon is so much more convenient!

vkou 10y ago

> Retailers complaining about how Amazon is creating a race-to-the-bottom with free shipping calls to mind horse vets complaining about how automobiles are eating into their lifestyles. It's sooooo unfair! The horse vets found other employment. The horses, by far and large, were butchered. The question these days is - which of us are the vets, and which of us are the horses?

bostonpete 10y ago
The vets were labor, the horses were capital/property. I'd say none of us are the horses.
- vkou 10y ago
  The horses had no skills that were useful in the post-automobile world - at least, no skills that justified the expense of paying^Wfeeding them.
snrplfth 10y ago
Well, most of the horses weren't necessarily eaten before their time - it's just that they weren't replaced, because the price of new horses went down quickly so horse breeders stopped raising so many foals. The working lifespan of a horse is at best 20 years.

JackFr 10y ago

> Retailers complaining about how Amazon is creating a race-to-the-bottom with free shipping calls Only thing worse is 20 years of financial journalists predicting Amazon's unsustainability and forthcoming demise.

hueving 10y ago
Well the store itself is really unsustainable. It's aws bringing in profit.

Spooky23 10y ago

> Amazon is changing the world the way Standard Oil changed the world. Standard Oil established itself as the nation's tollbooth.

vinceguidry 10y ago
Sure. Pay the toll, get free, virtually unlimited energy. Were you expecting them to do it for free?
- Spooky23 10y ago
  I expect a competitive marketplace.
  - vinceguidry 10y ago
    The market for oil was competitive. You should read the book Titan by Ron Chernow. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000XUDGHG/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000XUDGHG/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?... At no point was Standard Oil the only purveyor of oil products in the world. They enjoyed a dominant position akin to Microsoft's, but were unable to hold onto it forever. What Rockefeller eliminated was the refining industry. And he did so starting out as one of those refiners. Just as Amazon was at one point just another online retailer, Rockefeller was once just one of the many many refiners dotting the Cleveland countryside. He did it through his pure, amazing business acumen. He made better products than his rivals, and managed his money better. He built such good relations with the banks that they would pull up to him as he was walking down the street and offer him loan terms. Industries go through periods of consolidation and breakup all the time. It's just a necessary part of the evolution of the economy and society.
    - Spooky23 10y ago
      Standard Oil transitioned into a vertically integrated model that controlled 90% of the market in the 1903-1906 timeframe. Clearly Amazon has ambitions to do something similar, which isn't a good thing if you don't work for Amazon. From the government's anti-trust filing: > Almost everywhere the rates from the shipping points used exclusively, or almost exclusively, by the Standard are relatively lower than the rates from the shipping points of its competitors. Rates have been made low to let the Standard into markets, or they have been made high to keep its competitors out of markets. Trifling differences in distances are made an excuse for large differences in rates favorable to the Standard Oil Co., while large differences in distances are ignored where they are against the Standard. Sometimes connecting roads prorate on oil—that is, make through rates which are lower than the combination of local rates; sometimes they refuse to prorate; but in either case the result of their policy is to favor the Standard Oil Co. Different methods are used in different places and under different conditions, but the net result is that from Maine to California the general arrangement of open rates on petroleum oil is such as to give the Standard an unreasonable advantage over its competitors.

nickparker 10y ago

It also gives me a fair deal of schadenfreude (or something in the same vein) to see them missing Amazon's end game in the retail space: The cost of transportation is going to plummet as we move to electric and driverless vehicles. Amazon's game is the same as Uber's, lose money and win the market, then sit on your customer base as the same price points suddenly become highly profitable. But Mr. Schwartz is sure free shipping is an unsustainable trend.

gdulli 10y ago

> Amazon is creating a race-to-the-bottom with free shipping This hasn't been true for a while. For at least several years they've been going in the other direction with free shipping. They've raised the minimum purchase requirement for getting free shipping twice in the last few years ($25 to $35 to $49) and the other way to get "free" shipping isn't free, it's $99/year and you have to make a certain number of orders per year to get it to amortize to a reasonable shipping cost (which still won't be free.)