5 ms·

I was actually very surprised at the amount of folks that simply didn't respond _at all_ -- meaning not even an _acknowledgement_. The folks that I did hear ba

I was actually very surprised at the amount of folks that simply didn't respond _at all_ -- meaning not even an _acknowledgement_. The folks that I did hear back from were great, though. Nothing ever actually worked out in my case, though.

giis 10y ago
In my experience for remote-position, at-least I received ack. mails like "time-zone issues are there" etc and like 20% never sent ack. at all. Strangely most often those company appear almost every-month with same job posting, I wonder whats going on.
- phd514 10y ago
  My theory is that the no-cost HN posting allows some of these companies to keep posting perpetual openings in hopes of finding that elusive 100x developer that's willing to work for less than market rate. I can't say that bothers me too much, though. It's not that hard to see who has the same open req month after month and avoid those companies.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - wmeredith 10y ago
    It's 100x now? I thought it was 10x. And theses guys work for _below_ market rate? Interesting... I have a feeling those positions will be open for a while ;)
    - drtse4 10y ago
      A 10x developer that works for 10% the normal rate, maybe :)
- johnward 10y ago
  I always hear "we're looking for remote but not in your area". Most remote posts don't actually seem to be truly remote. I'm in the US eastern timezone, shrugs. To your second point, they are probably fishing for good devs that will work for lower than market rate. They don't actually have a job but are hoping to find a unicorn.
  - sulam 10y ago
    There are tax implications for having an employee in some states, regardless of what the person is paid. For instance I've been told that it would cost us several million dollars to hire someone remote who lives in New York. That developer would have to be really amazing to make it worthwhile to hire them!
    - johnward 10y ago
      That's interesting. Sometimes I do see "remote (Seattle area only)" or something like that. I work remote now but my company basically has a presence in every state and most countries.
- VLM 10y ago
  "appear almost every-month with same job posting, I wonder whats going on." Perhaps H1B fraud? There's a local company just a mile from my house that's been advertising the same $50K CCIE position for near fifteen years now.
- ryandrake 10y ago
  I'm actually working on a fun project that sorts through months of "Who's Hiring?" posts looking for companies posting identical or nearly-identical postings month after month. It'll be called "Who's Not Hiring?" Look for it once I get some free time :-)
  - emilburzo 10y ago
    That sounds like fun. If you haven't done that part yet, I actually wrote a scraper[1] in Java for the "Who's Hiring?" threads when I built a job searcher[2]. Not the prettiest, but it's pretty fast. [1] https://github.com/hnjobs/parser https://github.com/hnjobs/parser [2] https://hnjobs.emilburzo.com/ https://hnjobs.emilburzo.com/
    - ryandrake 10y ago
      The scraper was the easy part :)
mobiuscog 10y ago
That seems to happen everywhere these days - I've sent out several applications recently (non-HN) and had absolutely nothing back, not even an acknowledgement. It says a lot for the professionalism of a company when they can't even auto-respond a receipt, although a personal rejection would always be nice - if you can't be bothered to say you're not interested, why should I be bothered to apply ?
- johnward 10y ago
  I take the time to filter out jobs that I know I would be good at and then write a cover letter and customize my resume for the job, only to not hear any acknowledgement at all. I'm about to just blast my resume out with no filter and see what happens.
  - mysterydip 10y ago
    And I think that's the crux of the issue. When I was laid off, I hit the job boards. I started out being careful with my choices, doing custom cover letters, etc., but after no response from many, I started "shotgunning" and hoping something would stick. But that's what everyone else is doing: one-click apply to job/send your resume, and then HR gets overwhelmed, and determines not to send individual responses, which continues the spiral. I had one job I finally got a rejection from a week after I had started someplace else. As much as I may have liked any one position, I had mouths tl feed. No point in waiting 3 weeks for a simple response.
    - johnward 10y ago
      I think you nailed it. Then the recruiters start doing the same thing on the other end. I have 10 years of experience ands till get entry level help desk positions in my inbox.
      - linker3000 10y ago
        Ditto + I get electronic engineering stuff, which was my career path/company role until I switched to systems and networks in about 1989.
ohyoutravel 10y ago
Even worse is when their application process is "different" and they ask that you write code addressing some specific problem to submit with your resume. I'm not talking something simple, but a well thought out problem that requires a few hundred lines. I get that they're trying to be different and evaluate candidates on metrics other than just resume, but to send that kind of thing in (which takes a week of effort outside of your real job) and receive no acknowledgement or response to a follow up a couple weeks later is lame.
- xapata 10y ago
  Is it possible they didn't expect the problem to require a few hundred lines?
  - ohyoutravel 10y ago
    Well, that's not the point. The point is they didn't acknowledge that I submitted anything at all, and didn't acknowledge me after a follow up email a couple weeks later. That is always annoying, but in especially poor taste when you ask the applicant to complete a coding challenge before submission.
    - xapata 10y ago
      I don't like nonresponsive folks either, but it's par for the course. Consider that before putting effort into a coding challenge or whatever they're asking of you.
- amingilani 10y ago
  I was recently stupid enough to have had taken a task involving Spring Boot. I literally had to learn Java in a week make a web application using it in a week. The recruiter knew my inexperience with the technology but have it as "a challenge to observe my performance in an unfamiliar setting." It made that rejection much worse. Particularly when I had my code judged for a framework I'd only used for a week.
rezashirazian 10y ago
You have to realize that "We're hiring" is not always what it seems. Many company advertise that they are "hiring" to form a narrative of growth and perceived success for investors, customers and the industry in general.
framebit 10y ago
I've been on the job market in several industries before finding my way to software engineering. I can tell you that non-acknowledgement is absolutely the norm in pretty much any other industry, particularly in the case of online applications. Imagine firing off 100 applications through online portals, personal emails, responding to posts, going in person, etc and never, _ever_ hearing even a robo-response. It is soul-crushing. I felt like I was screaming into the void. Even though I've been in this industry awhile, the _luxury_ of being sought after in the job market still shocks me. Every time a recruiter reaches out to me on LinkedIn, even when they're clearly spamming, it is still mind-blowing. Every time I get a casual job offer from friends or acquaintances who are hiring on their teams, I'm flabbergasted. Back in the day, I would've been thrilled to hear even a "thanks but no thanks."
- antisthenes 10y ago
  It's like the difference between being an attractive person vs non-attractive.

giis 10y ago

In my experience for remote-position, at-least I received ack. mails like "time-zone issues are there" etc and like 20% never sent ack. at all. Strangely most often those company appear almost every-month with same job posting, I wonder whats going on.

phd514 10y ago
My theory is that the no-cost HN posting allows some of these companies to keep posting perpetual openings in hopes of finding that elusive 100x developer that's willing to work for less than market rate. I can't say that bothers me too much, though. It's not that hard to see who has the same open req month after month and avoid those companies.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- wmeredith 10y ago
  It's 100x now? I thought it was 10x. And theses guys work for _below_ market rate? Interesting... I have a feeling those positions will be open for a while ;)
  - drtse4 10y ago
    A 10x developer that works for 10% the normal rate, maybe :)
johnward 10y ago
I always hear "we're looking for remote but not in your area". Most remote posts don't actually seem to be truly remote. I'm in the US eastern timezone, shrugs. To your second point, they are probably fishing for good devs that will work for lower than market rate. They don't actually have a job but are hoping to find a unicorn.
- sulam 10y ago
  There are tax implications for having an employee in some states, regardless of what the person is paid. For instance I've been told that it would cost us several million dollars to hire someone remote who lives in New York. That developer would have to be really amazing to make it worthwhile to hire them!
  - johnward 10y ago
    That's interesting. Sometimes I do see "remote (Seattle area only)" or something like that. I work remote now but my company basically has a presence in every state and most countries.
VLM 10y ago
"appear almost every-month with same job posting, I wonder whats going on." Perhaps H1B fraud? There's a local company just a mile from my house that's been advertising the same $50K CCIE position for near fifteen years now.
ryandrake 10y ago
I'm actually working on a fun project that sorts through months of "Who's Hiring?" posts looking for companies posting identical or nearly-identical postings month after month. It'll be called "Who's Not Hiring?" Look for it once I get some free time :-)
- emilburzo 10y ago
  That sounds like fun. If you haven't done that part yet, I actually wrote a scraper[1] in Java for the "Who's Hiring?" threads when I built a job searcher[2]. Not the prettiest, but it's pretty fast. [1] https://github.com/hnjobs/parser https://github.com/hnjobs/parser [2] https://hnjobs.emilburzo.com/ https://hnjobs.emilburzo.com/
  - ryandrake 10y ago
    The scraper was the easy part :)

mobiuscog 10y ago

That seems to happen everywhere these days - I've sent out several applications recently (non-HN) and had absolutely nothing back, not even an acknowledgement. It says a lot for the professionalism of a company when they can't even auto-respond a receipt, although a personal rejection would always be nice - if you can't be bothered to say you're not interested, why should I be bothered to apply ?

johnward 10y ago
I take the time to filter out jobs that I know I would be good at and then write a cover letter and customize my resume for the job, only to not hear any acknowledgement at all. I'm about to just blast my resume out with no filter and see what happens.
- mysterydip 10y ago
  And I think that's the crux of the issue. When I was laid off, I hit the job boards. I started out being careful with my choices, doing custom cover letters, etc., but after no response from many, I started "shotgunning" and hoping something would stick. But that's what everyone else is doing: one-click apply to job/send your resume, and then HR gets overwhelmed, and determines not to send individual responses, which continues the spiral. I had one job I finally got a rejection from a week after I had started someplace else. As much as I may have liked any one position, I had mouths tl feed. No point in waiting 3 weeks for a simple response.
  - johnward 10y ago
    I think you nailed it. Then the recruiters start doing the same thing on the other end. I have 10 years of experience ands till get entry level help desk positions in my inbox.
    - linker3000 10y ago
      Ditto + I get electronic engineering stuff, which was my career path/company role until I switched to systems and networks in about 1989.

ohyoutravel 10y ago

Even worse is when their application process is "different" and they ask that you write code addressing some specific problem to submit with your resume. I'm not talking something simple, but a well thought out problem that requires a few hundred lines. I get that they're trying to be different and evaluate candidates on metrics other than just resume, but to send that kind of thing in (which takes a week of effort outside of your real job) and receive no acknowledgement or response to a follow up a couple weeks later is lame.

xapata 10y ago
Is it possible they didn't expect the problem to require a few hundred lines?
- ohyoutravel 10y ago
  Well, that's not the point. The point is they didn't acknowledge that I submitted anything at all, and didn't acknowledge me after a follow up email a couple weeks later. That is always annoying, but in especially poor taste when you ask the applicant to complete a coding challenge before submission.
  - xapata 10y ago
    I don't like nonresponsive folks either, but it's par for the course. Consider that before putting effort into a coding challenge or whatever they're asking of you.
amingilani 10y ago
I was recently stupid enough to have had taken a task involving Spring Boot. I literally had to learn Java in a week make a web application using it in a week. The recruiter knew my inexperience with the technology but have it as "a challenge to observe my performance in an unfamiliar setting." It made that rejection much worse. Particularly when I had my code judged for a framework I'd only used for a week.

rezashirazian 10y ago

You have to realize that "We're hiring" is not always what it seems. Many company advertise that they are "hiring" to form a narrative of growth and perceived success for investors, customers and the industry in general.

framebit 10y ago

I've been on the job market in several industries before finding my way to software engineering. I can tell you that non-acknowledgement is absolutely the norm in pretty much any other industry, particularly in the case of online applications. Imagine firing off 100 applications through online portals, personal emails, responding to posts, going in person, etc and never, _ever_ hearing even a robo-response. It is soul-crushing. I felt like I was screaming into the void. Even though I've been in this industry awhile, the _luxury_ of being sought after in the job market still shocks me. Every time a recruiter reaches out to me on LinkedIn, even when they're clearly spamming, it is still mind-blowing. Every time I get a casual job offer from friends or acquaintances who are hiring on their teams, I'm flabbergasted. Back in the day, I would've been thrilled to hear even a "thanks but no thanks."

antisthenes 10y ago
It's like the difference between being an attractive person vs non-attractive.