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Stop defending Apple using the RAM myths floating around. If Dell XPS 15 with 32GB DDR4 ram that's also thin and light can manage 5 hours battery life with a 56

by asadkn 10y ago

Stop defending Apple using the RAM myths floating around. If Dell XPS 15 with 32GB DDR4 ram that's also thin and light can manage 5 hours battery life with a 56Whr battery, Windows, and HQ series intel processors, there's no reason Apple couldn't manage more. Also, the 1.2v SO-DIMM DDR4 ram vs 1.2v LPDDR3 they used have close power consumption.

bitwize 10y ago
Maybe 5h is enough for you, but Apple fans are used to a 10h minimum, likely more. And very thin hardware.
- e40 10y ago
  Then go up to 99Wh, and stop with the "thin" thing. I have the 2014 MBP and it's plenty thin. No need at all to get thinner than that.
  - erebrus 10y ago
    So if it's thin enough for you, it's thin enough for everyone?! Really? People fail to understand that there are pro users with different needs...
    - e40 10y ago
      I didn't say that. They could make the 32GB version thicker.
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      You think 3 pounds + 16 GBs and as thin as possible is a much more common set of requirements than 4 pounds + 32 GBs and still really thin?
    - glenndebacker 10y ago
      I really would like to know what need you could have that is solved by making a laptop 3mm thinner. I personally think their whole obsession by making these laptops thin is contra productive if you think off al the things (non solderable RAM for example) we need to give up for it in return. Or maybe they should just give the user a choice.
- erebrus 10y ago
  For me this is a big part of the problem. Most "pros' that complain of lack of more power also are ok with shorter battery life because they work mostly plugged. Apparently, for them it's unconceivable that some "pros" do most of their work unplugged and for that battery life and size/weight are a major issue (and compared to other OSs the usability of the macOS is still a huge advantage over any other laptop).
  - phicoh 10y ago
    At some point Apple had three line of MacBooks (Pro, regular and Air). That seemed to make perfect sense. People who want light, long battery life go for Air, people who want processing power go for Pro. The strange thing is that Apple killed processing power in favour of more Air like features. That doesn't seem to make much sense in a 15" laptop.
    - erebrus 10y ago
      Except for those who were frustrated with the limitations of the Air (no retina, weak processors, etc.). Still, I agree about the 15". It does risk being in no man's land. I have an embarrassingly old air and I've been waiting for these slim pros to upgrade and rely less on my desktop. I was always only thinking of the 13", but the 15" is so small that I'm almost pondering going for it instead. All I'm worried about is whether or not the extra 500g will make it too heavy for my taste. So it does risk still being too heavy for someone who wants something super small and not powerful enough for those who don't care about portability as much.
    - mangeletti 10y ago
      But, the thing everyone is overlooking is that the new GPU is 82% more performant than the last model, so it's not like they're reducing the specs. They just haven't increased the specs to the level of some of the other big notebooks. I personally think that thinning the frame out while also increasing specs and keeping the battery life high was a smarter move than trying to cram in more RAM and keeping the 99.5 watt-hour battery that, with 32GB of RAM and a better GPU would have resulted in a ~5 hour battery life. However, what I wish Apple would have done, instead of making the new Macbook (the little 12" notebook), was to make the MacBook Pro thin like they have, with the same specs they have added, and then have the only other offering be a larger, more pro notebook (maybe on par with the 2011 level of thickness / weight) with 64GB max RAM and with one of these great GPUs everyone is talking about. They could have done with a ~5 hour battery life on the main battery, keeping the 99.5 battery for airline regulations, with an extra 50+ watt-hour battery that slides into a slot for use when not getting on a plane. This would have given Apple 2 choices, 1) an awesome MacBook Pro for most of us, and 2) an awesome MacBook Super for the power users who don't mind a 5lb notebook. There is not too much value in an even lighter / smaller notebook than the 13" MacBook Pro, which is why the Macbook 12" hasn't been flying off the shelf. Most people who can't do with an iPad (or iPad Pro) need a full notebook, not a 12" device that is slow.
- boundlessdreamz 10y ago
  There is also a model with 84Whr battery which takes the battery life to 7-8 hours
- jdietrich 10y ago
  "Very thin" is not a professional criterion. There is no context in which an extra millimetre of bulk means that you're unable to get the job done. Apple no longer has a truly professional mobile workstation. By focussing obsessively on size and weight, the whole product line has shifted downwards in relative performance, leaving a gaping void at the top end. The most powerful machine in the Apple lineup competes with mid-range PC laptops. A Windows user can choose from some extraordinarily powerful mobile workstations. If you need it, you can have 64gb of RAM, a desktop-class CPU, two desktop-class GPUs and quad M.2 RAID. You have the choice of ultimate performance or light weight. Apple offers no such choice. It may be a perfectly rational business decision, but Apple has decided to abandon the high-end. It has been nearly three years since the Mac Pro was updated; even on their supposedly high-end desktop workstation, Apple have traded performance for compactness. As we have seen on HN, Apple is risking an exodus of professional users. This exodus has already happened in many fields; I know a great many people in video and audio post-production who could not tolerate Apple's indifference towards the needs of media professionals. The abandonment of Final Cut Pro 7 and the inadequacies of FCPX were the icing on the cake. These users were Apple's mainstay in the difficult pre-iPhone years, but Apple seem happy to let them go.
  - mthoms 10y ago
    "Very thin" is not a professional criterion. There is no context in which an extra millimetre of bulk means that you're unable to get the job done. To argue that thin-and-light is never a valid criteria for professionals is a bit out of touch. Many professional designers/developers work from coffee shops, workspaces, the couch, the airplane, the client's office and so on. Remote workers and digital nomadism (I hate that phrase) is a huge thing right now. And growing. The question is whether they've gone too-far in this respect and I agree that they have. But, that doesn't mean that thin-and-light isn't a perfectly valid criteria for many professionals.
- asadkn 10y ago
  Just to clarify, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. The point is that Dell is using a much smaller battery, Windows (uses more battery in comparison to MacOS), a high-end / high TDP CPU and still managing 5 hours. Apple would be able to manage the 10 hours. Using SO-DIMM DDR4 (1.2v) would sacrifice a few mm of thinness and a few minutes of battery life at best.

by asadkn 10y ago

bitwize 10y ago

Maybe 5h is enough for you, but Apple fans are used to a 10h minimum, likely more. And very thin hardware.

e40 10y ago
Then go up to 99Wh, and stop with the "thin" thing. I have the 2014 MBP and it's plenty thin. No need at all to get thinner than that.
- erebrus 10y ago
  So if it's thin enough for you, it's thin enough for everyone?! Really? People fail to understand that there are pro users with different needs...
  - e40 10y ago
    I didn't say that. They could make the 32GB version thicker.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    You think 3 pounds + 16 GBs and as thin as possible is a much more common set of requirements than 4 pounds + 32 GBs and still really thin?
  - glenndebacker 10y ago
    I really would like to know what need you could have that is solved by making a laptop 3mm thinner. I personally think their whole obsession by making these laptops thin is contra productive if you think off al the things (non solderable RAM for example) we need to give up for it in return. Or maybe they should just give the user a choice.
erebrus 10y ago
For me this is a big part of the problem. Most "pros' that complain of lack of more power also are ok with shorter battery life because they work mostly plugged. Apparently, for them it's unconceivable that some "pros" do most of their work unplugged and for that battery life and size/weight are a major issue (and compared to other OSs the usability of the macOS is still a huge advantage over any other laptop).
- phicoh 10y ago
  At some point Apple had three line of MacBooks (Pro, regular and Air). That seemed to make perfect sense. People who want light, long battery life go for Air, people who want processing power go for Pro. The strange thing is that Apple killed processing power in favour of more Air like features. That doesn't seem to make much sense in a 15" laptop.
  - erebrus 10y ago
    Except for those who were frustrated with the limitations of the Air (no retina, weak processors, etc.). Still, I agree about the 15". It does risk being in no man's land. I have an embarrassingly old air and I've been waiting for these slim pros to upgrade and rely less on my desktop. I was always only thinking of the 13", but the 15" is so small that I'm almost pondering going for it instead. All I'm worried about is whether or not the extra 500g will make it too heavy for my taste. So it does risk still being too heavy for someone who wants something super small and not powerful enough for those who don't care about portability as much.
  - mangeletti 10y ago
    But, the thing everyone is overlooking is that the new GPU is 82% more performant than the last model, so it's not like they're reducing the specs. They just haven't increased the specs to the level of some of the other big notebooks. I personally think that thinning the frame out while also increasing specs and keeping the battery life high was a smarter move than trying to cram in more RAM and keeping the 99.5 watt-hour battery that, with 32GB of RAM and a better GPU would have resulted in a ~5 hour battery life. However, what I wish Apple would have done, instead of making the new Macbook (the little 12" notebook), was to make the MacBook Pro thin like they have, with the same specs they have added, and then have the only other offering be a larger, more pro notebook (maybe on par with the 2011 level of thickness / weight) with 64GB max RAM and with one of these great GPUs everyone is talking about. They could have done with a ~5 hour battery life on the main battery, keeping the 99.5 battery for airline regulations, with an extra 50+ watt-hour battery that slides into a slot for use when not getting on a plane. This would have given Apple 2 choices, 1) an awesome MacBook Pro for most of us, and 2) an awesome MacBook Super for the power users who don't mind a 5lb notebook. There is not too much value in an even lighter / smaller notebook than the 13" MacBook Pro, which is why the Macbook 12" hasn't been flying off the shelf. Most people who can't do with an iPad (or iPad Pro) need a full notebook, not a 12" device that is slow.
boundlessdreamz 10y ago
There is also a model with 84Whr battery which takes the battery life to 7-8 hours
jdietrich 10y ago
"Very thin" is not a professional criterion. There is no context in which an extra millimetre of bulk means that you're unable to get the job done. Apple no longer has a truly professional mobile workstation. By focussing obsessively on size and weight, the whole product line has shifted downwards in relative performance, leaving a gaping void at the top end. The most powerful machine in the Apple lineup competes with mid-range PC laptops. A Windows user can choose from some extraordinarily powerful mobile workstations. If you need it, you can have 64gb of RAM, a desktop-class CPU, two desktop-class GPUs and quad M.2 RAID. You have the choice of ultimate performance or light weight. Apple offers no such choice. It may be a perfectly rational business decision, but Apple has decided to abandon the high-end. It has been nearly three years since the Mac Pro was updated; even on their supposedly high-end desktop workstation, Apple have traded performance for compactness. As we have seen on HN, Apple is risking an exodus of professional users. This exodus has already happened in many fields; I know a great many people in video and audio post-production who could not tolerate Apple's indifference towards the needs of media professionals. The abandonment of Final Cut Pro 7 and the inadequacies of FCPX were the icing on the cake. These users were Apple's mainstay in the difficult pre-iPhone years, but Apple seem happy to let them go.
- mthoms 10y ago
  "Very thin" is not a professional criterion. There is no context in which an extra millimetre of bulk means that you're unable to get the job done. To argue that thin-and-light is never a valid criteria for professionals is a bit out of touch. Many professional designers/developers work from coffee shops, workspaces, the couch, the airplane, the client's office and so on. Remote workers and digital nomadism (I hate that phrase) is a huge thing right now. And growing. The question is whether they've gone too-far in this respect and I agree that they have. But, that doesn't mean that thin-and-light isn't a perfectly valid criteria for many professionals.
asadkn 10y ago
Just to clarify, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. The point is that Dell is using a much smaller battery, Windows (uses more battery in comparison to MacOS), a high-end / high TDP CPU and still managing 5 hours. Apple would be able to manage the 10 hours. Using SO-DIMM DDR4 (1.2v) would sacrifice a few mm of thinness and a few minutes of battery life at best.