5 ms·

The software is there, but what about the hardware to go with it? The only laptops comparable to Macbook Pro hardware quality and battery life are the Dell XPS

by anondon 10y ago

The software is there, but what about the hardware to go with it? The only laptops comparable to Macbook Pro hardware quality and battery life are the Dell XPS series and the Thinkpad X1. I feel there is a serious shortage of good laptops with linux pre-installed that the non-technical user can pickup and start using.

antouank 10y ago
Check the Razer blade series
- m_mueller 10y ago
  How are their touchpads?
  - keyle 10y ago
    Great question. It's hard to get even close to the Mac touchpads.
    - m_mueller 10y ago
      Why is that such a hard problem? Do they all just not care? Patents?
      - muyuu 10y ago
        Not sure if it's so hard, but patents certainly exist for Apple's trackpads.
- epse 10y ago
  They are really annoying on Linux.
  - antouank 10y ago
    How so?
  - todd8 10y ago
    I've never gotten them to work well on laptops running Linux. I have limited patience for fiddling around with drivers, releases, different laptops, so perhaps I just haven't spent enough hours trying to get them to work; in the end, I've always given up and just thrown a small mouse in my bag. For me, the palm rejection has never worked as well as it does on Macs and the scrolling and multi-touch gestures are so pathetic under Linux on a laptop that its better to just disable the touchpad and stick with a mouse. Even the glassy smooth feel of the Mac touchpad is superior to other laptops and the new haptic touchpad on the newer macs makes clicking on any part of the touchpad wonderful. I do have a question for HN: with enough practice, does a keyboard with the pointing stick ever feel adequate? I've never seemed to get the hang of it in the numerous times I've had to use them (each time for only a few minutes).
- pqdbr 10y ago
  The new MacBooks are so lackluster that for the first time in 11 years I'm actually considering Windows options, and I also arrived at Razer as the best option out there. They look amazing and performance and connectivity wise blow the new macs out of the water. In the end, its macOS that's still holding me back. Haven't decided yet tough.
  - kabdib 10y ago
    Windows is getting better, but it will still make you very angry. The update system makes me howl. The shell is pale shadow of the MacOS terminal (you can kind of fix this with other shells, but the app-restore behavior after a reboot? Gone, and Windows reboots a lot compared to MacOS).
    - dougmwne 10y ago
      I'm curious if you've tried PowerShell. MS has been pushing it as a command prompt replacement since Windows 7. It's a little annoying to have to relearn the syntax, but it seems about a capable as osx terminal.
    - deadbunny 10y ago
      When you say shell I assume you mean terminal. The Windows terminal is utter garbage, and I've not found a decent one (i've not looked very hard to be fair) but you can install bash (the shell) and have all the functionality you've got in OSX (also a bash shell, a really really old bash shell).
      - porker 10y ago
        > The Windows terminal is utter garbage, and I've not found a decent one I install http://cmder.net/ http://cmder.net/ on every Windows machine. Makes my life more pleasant
      - reitoei 10y ago
        Git Bash + ConEmu + Chocolatey is pretty close to perfection IMHO.
- santaclaus 10y ago
  Rolling into a creative 'pro' setting with a laptop from a company that tweets about sucking dicks does not telegraph a particularly professional image.
goombastic 10y ago
The other problem is that laptops are being built like mobile phones, with everything soldered to the board and the whole thing either sealed shut or taped down. Upgradeable & portable laptops just dont seem to exist at the price points they used to.
- audunw 10y ago
  Get used to it. This is the way the industry is going, for very good reasons. Increased demands for more (or same) performance at lower power means you want more connections with shorter traces, and more functionality in the same chip or package. It seems likely that eventually all components except primary storage (SSD) will be in a single package. On the flip-side, we've gotten external GPUs through Thunderbolt. So we've gotten the ability to extend laptop GPUs. Another positive development is that SSDs are likely to continue getting faster. Maybe RAM won't be upgradeable anymore, but if Intel can push out their Octane/3D XPoint tech, you might get SSDs so fast that you can get almost the same benefit swapping to a faster SSD as upgraded RAM. I mean, you've never been able to upgrade your CPU cache. If RAM is a glorified cache for the SSD, why complain that you can't upgrade that anymore? Maybe one day SSDs will be soldered on in laptops too though :/
  - xxs 10y ago
    >>I mean, you've never been able to upgrade your CPU cache More L3 cache will hardly do anything for you either way. But upgrading the CPU may mean upgrading the CPU cache, if it's a socket one instead of soldered, it ain't hard at any rate. However, even overclocking the CPU cache has beyond minuscule results. >>If RAM is a glorified cache for the SSD This 'really' depends on your workloads and it's not always the case, even though it's often the RAM is mostly used as disk cache.
- xxs 10y ago
  Nowadays, and most "fancy" brands. Few weeks back I upgraded a 2010 laptop by replacing the CPU, RAM, Battery, adding SSD (instead of the DVD). The end result was glorious. Looking at current generation of soldered CPU and glue as building solution is off putting at best. It feels like a cheap toy produced in a sweat shop.
miguelrochefort 10y ago
How about the Surface?
- laktak 10y ago
  There is no 15" version and I doubt you can install Linux without a hack.
  - nextos 10y ago
    Some are pretty Linux friendly, see http://reddit.com/r/SurfaceLinux http://reddit.com/r/SurfaceLinux
    - fernandotakai 10y ago
      archlinux has a wikipage on surface pro 3 https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Microsoft_Surface_Pro_3 https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Microsoft_Surface_Pro_3
Freak_NL 10y ago
System76 is a solid choice (I love my four year old Gazelle, with 16Gb or RAM from the start), although ordering a laptop there is slightly cumbersome if you are living outside of North America. https://system76.com/laptops https://system76.com/laptops The build quality of their offerings seems to get better with each successive generation too, and of course everything works out of the box. I just wish they would partner with someone in the EU; that way shipping costs, VAT, and tariffs can be handled more transparently.
- driverdan 10y ago
  Those are nowhere near comparable to a MBP. Plastic, thick, heavy. No thanks.
- JonnieCache 10y ago
  What makes system76 laptops better than the XPS 13?
  - dagw 10y ago
    Depends on what you care about. If you want are willing to sacrifice a bit of performance for longer battery life and lower weight, then the XPS 13 wins handily. If on the other hand you're willing to sacrifice (quite a lot of) battery life and accept (a lot) heavier weight in exchange for performance, then System 76 will sell you some of the fastest laptops money can buy.
    - coldtea 10y ago
      >If on the other hand you're willing to sacrifice (quite a lot of) battery life and accept (a lot) heavier weight in exchange for performance Then you're not really into this mobility thing?
      - dagw 10y ago
        Mobility is relative. Back when I split my time between two offices and occasionally worked from home I would have loved to have a decently powerful workstation that I could easily transport in a backpack.
jablan 10y ago
What about Apple's hardware quality really makes that much of a difference? Is it really that important for a tool which is meant to be replaced in 3 years to be made from machined aluminum and beautifully designed (sometimes even at expense of usability)? Up until 5 years ago we were perfectly happy and productive using laptops with 3-4 hours battery life. Did our habits and requirements changed that much that anything below, what, 12 hours of battery life is scandalous and unacceptable?
- frodprefect 10y ago
  It's the multi touch trackpad for me. Nothing else compares.
- Vadoff 10y ago
  That's 12 hours of battery life in optimal settings. Being connected to wifi/downloading, watching videos, playing games, or doing anything computationally expensive will significantly reduce that battery life to a couple of hours.
thewhitetulip 10y ago
my mac's battery backup is of 8+ hrs and it is a 2012 model, it depends what I do on it, sometimes I get a 12+ hr backup. I don't think there is any other laptop which is as slim and has such a nice battery backup
thewhitetulip 10y ago
my mac's battery backup is of 8+ hrs and it is a 2012 model, it depends what I do on it, sometimes I get a 12+ hr backup. I don't think there is any other laptop which is as slim and has such a nice battery backup

by anondon 10y ago

antouank 10y ago

Check the Razer blade series

m_mueller 10y ago
How are their touchpads?
- keyle 10y ago
  Great question. It's hard to get even close to the Mac touchpads.
  - m_mueller 10y ago
    Why is that such a hard problem? Do they all just not care? Patents?
    - muyuu 10y ago
      Not sure if it's so hard, but patents certainly exist for Apple's trackpads.
epse 10y ago
They are really annoying on Linux.
- antouank 10y ago
  How so?
- todd8 10y ago
  I've never gotten them to work well on laptops running Linux. I have limited patience for fiddling around with drivers, releases, different laptops, so perhaps I just haven't spent enough hours trying to get them to work; in the end, I've always given up and just thrown a small mouse in my bag. For me, the palm rejection has never worked as well as it does on Macs and the scrolling and multi-touch gestures are so pathetic under Linux on a laptop that its better to just disable the touchpad and stick with a mouse. Even the glassy smooth feel of the Mac touchpad is superior to other laptops and the new haptic touchpad on the newer macs makes clicking on any part of the touchpad wonderful. I do have a question for HN: with enough practice, does a keyboard with the pointing stick ever feel adequate? I've never seemed to get the hang of it in the numerous times I've had to use them (each time for only a few minutes).
pqdbr 10y ago
The new MacBooks are so lackluster that for the first time in 11 years I'm actually considering Windows options, and I also arrived at Razer as the best option out there. They look amazing and performance and connectivity wise blow the new macs out of the water. In the end, its macOS that's still holding me back. Haven't decided yet tough.
- kabdib 10y ago
  Windows is getting better, but it will still make you very angry. The update system makes me howl. The shell is pale shadow of the MacOS terminal (you can kind of fix this with other shells, but the app-restore behavior after a reboot? Gone, and Windows reboots a lot compared to MacOS).
  - dougmwne 10y ago
    I'm curious if you've tried PowerShell. MS has been pushing it as a command prompt replacement since Windows 7. It's a little annoying to have to relearn the syntax, but it seems about a capable as osx terminal.
  - deadbunny 10y ago
    When you say shell I assume you mean terminal. The Windows terminal is utter garbage, and I've not found a decent one (i've not looked very hard to be fair) but you can install bash (the shell) and have all the functionality you've got in OSX (also a bash shell, a really really old bash shell).
    - porker 10y ago
      > The Windows terminal is utter garbage, and I've not found a decent one I install http://cmder.net/ http://cmder.net/ on every Windows machine. Makes my life more pleasant
    - reitoei 10y ago
      Git Bash + ConEmu + Chocolatey is pretty close to perfection IMHO.
santaclaus 10y ago
Rolling into a creative 'pro' setting with a laptop from a company that tweets about sucking dicks does not telegraph a particularly professional image.

goombastic 10y ago

The other problem is that laptops are being built like mobile phones, with everything soldered to the board and the whole thing either sealed shut or taped down. Upgradeable & portable laptops just dont seem to exist at the price points they used to.

audunw 10y ago
Get used to it. This is the way the industry is going, for very good reasons. Increased demands for more (or same) performance at lower power means you want more connections with shorter traces, and more functionality in the same chip or package. It seems likely that eventually all components except primary storage (SSD) will be in a single package. On the flip-side, we've gotten external GPUs through Thunderbolt. So we've gotten the ability to extend laptop GPUs. Another positive development is that SSDs are likely to continue getting faster. Maybe RAM won't be upgradeable anymore, but if Intel can push out their Octane/3D XPoint tech, you might get SSDs so fast that you can get almost the same benefit swapping to a faster SSD as upgraded RAM. I mean, you've never been able to upgrade your CPU cache. If RAM is a glorified cache for the SSD, why complain that you can't upgrade that anymore? Maybe one day SSDs will be soldered on in laptops too though :/
- xxs 10y ago
  >>I mean, you've never been able to upgrade your CPU cache More L3 cache will hardly do anything for you either way. But upgrading the CPU may mean upgrading the CPU cache, if it's a socket one instead of soldered, it ain't hard at any rate. However, even overclocking the CPU cache has beyond minuscule results. >>If RAM is a glorified cache for the SSD This 'really' depends on your workloads and it's not always the case, even though it's often the RAM is mostly used as disk cache.
xxs 10y ago
Nowadays, and most "fancy" brands. Few weeks back I upgraded a 2010 laptop by replacing the CPU, RAM, Battery, adding SSD (instead of the DVD). The end result was glorious. Looking at current generation of soldered CPU and glue as building solution is off putting at best. It feels like a cheap toy produced in a sweat shop.

miguelrochefort 10y ago

How about the Surface?

laktak 10y ago
There is no 15" version and I doubt you can install Linux without a hack.
- nextos 10y ago
  Some are pretty Linux friendly, see http://reddit.com/r/SurfaceLinux http://reddit.com/r/SurfaceLinux
  - fernandotakai 10y ago
    archlinux has a wikipage on surface pro 3 https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Microsoft_Surface_Pro_3 https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Microsoft_Surface_Pro_3

Freak_NL 10y ago

System76 is a solid choice (I love my four year old Gazelle, with 16Gb or RAM from the start), although ordering a laptop there is slightly cumbersome if you are living outside of North America. https://system76.com/laptops https://system76.com/laptops The build quality of their offerings seems to get better with each successive generation too, and of course everything works out of the box. I just wish they would partner with someone in the EU; that way shipping costs, VAT, and tariffs can be handled more transparently.

driverdan 10y ago
Those are nowhere near comparable to a MBP. Plastic, thick, heavy. No thanks.
JonnieCache 10y ago
What makes system76 laptops better than the XPS 13?
- dagw 10y ago
  Depends on what you care about. If you want are willing to sacrifice a bit of performance for longer battery life and lower weight, then the XPS 13 wins handily. If on the other hand you're willing to sacrifice (quite a lot of) battery life and accept (a lot) heavier weight in exchange for performance, then System 76 will sell you some of the fastest laptops money can buy.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >If on the other hand you're willing to sacrifice (quite a lot of) battery life and accept (a lot) heavier weight in exchange for performance Then you're not really into this mobility thing?
    - dagw 10y ago
      Mobility is relative. Back when I split my time between two offices and occasionally worked from home I would have loved to have a decently powerful workstation that I could easily transport in a backpack.

jablan 10y ago

What about Apple's hardware quality really makes that much of a difference? Is it really that important for a tool which is meant to be replaced in 3 years to be made from machined aluminum and beautifully designed (sometimes even at expense of usability)? Up until 5 years ago we were perfectly happy and productive using laptops with 3-4 hours battery life. Did our habits and requirements changed that much that anything below, what, 12 hours of battery life is scandalous and unacceptable?

frodprefect 10y ago
It's the multi touch trackpad for me. Nothing else compares.
Vadoff 10y ago
That's 12 hours of battery life in optimal settings. Being connected to wifi/downloading, watching videos, playing games, or doing anything computationally expensive will significantly reduce that battery life to a couple of hours.

thewhitetulip 10y ago

my mac's battery backup is of 8+ hrs and it is a 2012 model, it depends what I do on it, sometimes I get a 12+ hr backup. I don't think there is any other laptop which is as slim and has such a nice battery backup

thewhitetulip 10y ago