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In other words, part of the problem. The coders get all the perks, the free sodas, stock options, the high salaries, etc. The front line employees get a commute

In other words, part of the problem. The coders get all the perks, the free sodas, stock options, the high salaries, etc. The front line employees get a commute from Stockton and an opportunity for an extra dollar an hour wage next year, unless there's a wage freeze.

fapi1974 10y ago
Yes!!! On the other hand, many of our agents are completely stoked to work for a cool company (e.g. a Bay Area startup), from home, without the commute. They are happier, stay longer, and have way fewer sick days etc. Great article on that here: https://fyiliving.com/uncategorized/telecommuting-linked-to-higher-job-satisfaction https://fyiliving.com/uncategorized/telecommuting-linked-to-...
- fapi1974 10y ago
  Edit - it might not be clear, but I'm the CEO of PeopleDelight. Happy to answer any questions about support.
- Sanddancer 10y ago
  What sort of stock options do your employees get? Yes, they get a "cool" tech job, but they don't get an ability to advance either.
  - fapi1974 10y ago
    That is correct, no two ways about it. That said, we do profit sharing, which few others do, albeit for the agents who do well.
  - jackgolding 10y ago
    Every company I've been in has had people advance from support to things like sales/marketing/sys admin - being in the company or at least in the industry has helped a lot!
    - Sanddancer 10y ago
      If you're in the same building as everyone else, sure. However, the company in question outsources, even as far as having everyone work from home. So there's a much smaller chance of building the camaraderie needed to build such advancement options.
gwbas1c 10y ago
Supply and demand! Software engineers are much harder to find than support staff. They also bear a lot more of the burden than a front-line support person, as the problems they solve are much more complicated, and need to fit in with competing interests beyond one customer's single support request.
- Sanddancer 10y ago
  Support staff must be hard to find if you have to look beyond the valley. The same argument could be made about having a team of outsourced coders; you can find much cheaper coders if you hire outside of the country, non?
- sgift 10y ago
  > They also bear a lot more of the burden than a front-line support person I'm not sure about that part. The amount of abuse those people have to withstand without being allowed to defend themselves (because "it's a customer, be nice!") can break even the calmest person.
  - lsc 10y ago
    Yes, it is a rare kind of person who can be good at being front-line support for very long. Especially for one of those outsourced-support outfits that isn't actually allowed to help the customer. I kinda kid about the last part, but even when it's internal, being front-line support is brutal, especially for low-value products. The customer knows they can usually get free stuff by being mean, and it's the front line support rep who has to deal with that, almost always without the power to fire the customer. Half the time, they have to deal with corporate policies that are set in place really to get rid of customers who actually use support, but that don't want to admit this obvious fact. This requires an ungodly amount of patience. That was one of the reasons why I think doing support for your own company is so much easier; you can actually say "Hey, uh, I don't think we can help you, how about I give you your money back and you go talk to a competitor?" you don't have to pretend to be ineffective until they leave on their own, which is essentially what the corporate policies are setup to do. It's soul crushing. (I mean, developers get paid more because businesses notice when their developers can't develop; businesses seem to be largely okay with ineffective customer support. I suspect you would have to come within 70-80% of a developer salary if you actually wanted to keep effective customer support people. If you look at very high dollar products where support people are expected to actually help customers solve problems? they pay in that range; sometimes better. )

fapi1974 10y ago

Yes!!! On the other hand, many of our agents are completely stoked to work for a cool company (e.g. a Bay Area startup), from home, without the commute. They are happier, stay longer, and have way fewer sick days etc. Great article on that here: https://fyiliving.com/uncategorized/telecommuting-linked-to-higher-job-satisfaction https://fyiliving.com/uncategorized/telecommuting-linked-to-...

fapi1974 10y ago
Edit - it might not be clear, but I'm the CEO of PeopleDelight. Happy to answer any questions about support.
Sanddancer 10y ago
What sort of stock options do your employees get? Yes, they get a "cool" tech job, but they don't get an ability to advance either.
- fapi1974 10y ago
  That is correct, no two ways about it. That said, we do profit sharing, which few others do, albeit for the agents who do well.
- jackgolding 10y ago
  Every company I've been in has had people advance from support to things like sales/marketing/sys admin - being in the company or at least in the industry has helped a lot!
  - Sanddancer 10y ago
    If you're in the same building as everyone else, sure. However, the company in question outsources, even as far as having everyone work from home. So there's a much smaller chance of building the camaraderie needed to build such advancement options.

gwbas1c 10y ago

Supply and demand! Software engineers are much harder to find than support staff. They also bear a lot more of the burden than a front-line support person, as the problems they solve are much more complicated, and need to fit in with competing interests beyond one customer's single support request.

Sanddancer 10y ago
Support staff must be hard to find if you have to look beyond the valley. The same argument could be made about having a team of outsourced coders; you can find much cheaper coders if you hire outside of the country, non?
sgift 10y ago
> They also bear a lot more of the burden than a front-line support person I'm not sure about that part. The amount of abuse those people have to withstand without being allowed to defend themselves (because "it's a customer, be nice!") can break even the calmest person.
- lsc 10y ago
  Yes, it is a rare kind of person who can be good at being front-line support for very long. Especially for one of those outsourced-support outfits that isn't actually allowed to help the customer. I kinda kid about the last part, but even when it's internal, being front-line support is brutal, especially for low-value products. The customer knows they can usually get free stuff by being mean, and it's the front line support rep who has to deal with that, almost always without the power to fire the customer. Half the time, they have to deal with corporate policies that are set in place really to get rid of customers who actually use support, but that don't want to admit this obvious fact. This requires an ungodly amount of patience. That was one of the reasons why I think doing support for your own company is so much easier; you can actually say "Hey, uh, I don't think we can help you, how about I give you your money back and you go talk to a competitor?" you don't have to pretend to be ineffective until they leave on their own, which is essentially what the corporate policies are setup to do. It's soul crushing. (I mean, developers get paid more because businesses notice when their developers can't develop; businesses seem to be largely okay with ineffective customer support. I suspect you would have to come within 70-80% of a developer salary if you actually wanted to keep effective customer support people. If you look at very high dollar products where support people are expected to actually help customers solve problems? they pay in that range; sometimes better. )