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> Would you take advice on how to fish, from a fish I think you were joking here, but holy crap yes I would take fishing advice from a fish (provided it was a

by dlss 10y ago

> Would you take advice on how to fish, from a fish I think you were joking here, but holy crap yes I would take fishing advice from a fish (provided it was a human-level intelligent fish that spoke english... which if I'm following your metaphor correctly it is in this case) More generally the issue with "not asking fish how to fish" is it's the exact opposite of how successful companies treat customers. I ask my customers how they liked the product, what they'd change, how they'd sell it to other customers, etc, etc. That isn't an error. It's one of the most effective business improvement tactics I know of. This is not to say that the information source is unbiased (customers are much less likely to suggest a price hike for example), or particularly skilled at knowing how to address their needs (they'll ask for a "faster horse" when they mean "gasoline engine" to ruin a quote)... but the fact remains that fish (customers or investors) are the best source of information you have.

logicallee 10y ago
>I ask my customers how they liked the product, how they'd sell it to other customers, etc, etc Are you being literal in the second half of your sentence? I, as well as everyone else, has had loads of companies ask me about my opinion as a consumer. I've never had a company ask me "How would you sell this to someone else"? Have you? Do you actually state that question? The statement "would you ask a fish, how to fish" comes from the dating world. I was tired of not dating despite doing what my women friends told me they wanted, which is wrong. I'll give a personal anecdote. Women looking for serious relationsihps on dating apps will say they will left-swipe or reject someone with just a picture of their nude upper body without a head. That's not what they want to see, they say. I followed their advice for a while. Then I ignored their advice, I changed my profile picture to a picture of my nude upper body (I'm male) without my head, and shortly thereafter I had a great girlfriend I was in a monogamous relationsihp with, wherein we both deleted our dating accounts shortly after first meeting. The fact that women say this is not what they want (when asked what they're looking for from 'pitches') is absolutely irrelevant to how to attract and make them happy. This isn't some kind of meta-commentary on consent or anything like that, I am just saying that it doesn't matter that they told me this is not what they want to see. Because it doesn't matter what they say, it matters what htey do. It doesn't matter what Garry says, it matters what he does, and no, neither he nor anyone else actually invests on the basis of the points he's enumerated in the article. I point this out by showing what it would take to fail any one of these filters. Also notice how powerful this comment has just become, after I shared a personal story from the dating world. (At least this is my personal judgment/experience - perhaps you don't find it any more convincing than my more rigorous argument upthread.)
- dlss 10y ago
  > I've never had a company ask me "How would you sell this to someone else"? Have you? Do you actually state that question? Yes I absolutely ask that question, and have been asked this question. If you hang out around startups, especially ones using Steve Blank's Customer Development Methodology you'll hear it frequently. > Also notice how powerful this comment has just become, after I shared a personal story from the dating world I don't know if I agree with powerful. I will say I'm less optimistic about helping you come to a deeper understanding since, well, it sounds like your mind is made up. The best I can do is: imagine if you, and 7 billion copies of you, were the only people on this planet. Now picture where the above philosophy gets you in terms of global happiness. Perhaps strategies that emphasize communication would do better?
  - logicallee 10y ago
    If there were 7 billion copies of me, then the best thing I could do to find out how to sell to them, is to sell to them. Not the best thing would be to ask them. Even more not the best thing would be just to look inside myself. Garry didn't even relate how pitches he would have said no to got him to say yes - because they 1, used plain-spoken language, or 2, zoomed out, or 3, had a big future, or 4, knew their numbers, or 5, understood something others didn't. I mean companies he would have said "no" to but these things made him say yes. Quite simply, these are not the things that make people say yes. Perhaps a better example might be this picture: http://www.concept-phones.com/apple/iphone-7-kitchen-sink-parody-comic/ http://www.concept-phones.com/apple/iphone-7-kitchen-sink-pa... It's a parody, right? But not exactly: many features there were explicitly requested by users. market research is good and important. Of course I would ask investors what they're interested in, what they think about something, what they would invest in. But that is not how you get them to invest, and although Garry does know how to get people to invest, he hasn't put it in this article at all. I suppose the article can be useful if you read it as, "What a YCombinator partner says they want to see from a pitch." Just don't confuse it for the real advise that will get you funded. This isn't it.
    - dlss 10y ago

by dlss 10y ago

logicallee 10y ago

>I ask my customers how they liked the product, how they'd sell it to other customers, etc, etc Are you being literal in the second half of your sentence? I, as well as everyone else, has had loads of companies ask me about my opinion as a consumer. I've never had a company ask me "How would you sell this to someone else"? Have you? Do you actually state that question? The statement "would you ask a fish, how to fish" comes from the dating world. I was tired of not dating despite doing what my women friends told me they wanted, which is wrong. I'll give a personal anecdote. Women looking for serious relationsihps on dating apps will say they will left-swipe or reject someone with just a picture of their nude upper body without a head. That's not what they want to see, they say. I followed their advice for a while. Then I ignored their advice, I changed my profile picture to a picture of my nude upper body (I'm male) without my head, and shortly thereafter I had a great girlfriend I was in a monogamous relationsihp with, wherein we both deleted our dating accounts shortly after first meeting. The fact that women say this is not what they want (when asked what they're looking for from 'pitches') is absolutely irrelevant to how to attract and make them happy. This isn't some kind of meta-commentary on consent or anything like that, I am just saying that it doesn't matter that they told me this is not what they want to see. Because it doesn't matter what they say, it matters what htey do. It doesn't matter what Garry says, it matters what he does, and no, neither he nor anyone else actually invests on the basis of the points he's enumerated in the article. I point this out by showing what it would take to fail any one of these filters. Also notice how powerful this comment has just become, after I shared a personal story from the dating world. (At least this is my personal judgment/experience - perhaps you don't find it any more convincing than my more rigorous argument upthread.)

dlss 10y ago
> I've never had a company ask me "How would you sell this to someone else"? Have you? Do you actually state that question? Yes I absolutely ask that question, and have been asked this question. If you hang out around startups, especially ones using Steve Blank's Customer Development Methodology you'll hear it frequently. > Also notice how powerful this comment has just become, after I shared a personal story from the dating world I don't know if I agree with powerful. I will say I'm less optimistic about helping you come to a deeper understanding since, well, it sounds like your mind is made up. The best I can do is: imagine if you, and 7 billion copies of you, were the only people on this planet. Now picture where the above philosophy gets you in terms of global happiness. Perhaps strategies that emphasize communication would do better?
- logicallee 10y ago
  If there were 7 billion copies of me, then the best thing I could do to find out how to sell to them, is to sell to them. Not the best thing would be to ask them. Even more not the best thing would be just to look inside myself. Garry didn't even relate how pitches he would have said no to got him to say yes - because they 1, used plain-spoken language, or 2, zoomed out, or 3, had a big future, or 4, knew their numbers, or 5, understood something others didn't. I mean companies he would have said "no" to but these things made him say yes. Quite simply, these are not the things that make people say yes. Perhaps a better example might be this picture: http://www.concept-phones.com/apple/iphone-7-kitchen-sink-parody-comic/ http://www.concept-phones.com/apple/iphone-7-kitchen-sink-pa... It's a parody, right? But not exactly: many features there were explicitly requested by users. market research is good and important. Of course I would ask investors what they're interested in, what they think about something, what they would invest in. But that is not how you get them to invest, and although Garry does know how to get people to invest, he hasn't put it in this article at all. I suppose the article can be useful if you read it as, "What a YCombinator partner says they want to see from a pitch." Just don't confuse it for the real advise that will get you funded. This isn't it.
  - dlss 10y ago