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Keep Ruby Weird Again [video]
- TheBiv 10y agoI'm currently watching this video and unfortunately I cannot stare at the video for more than a few seconds bc of that glowing green border around the outside of the page. I finally had to just change the color. OP if you have anything to do with this website, please consider changing that color to almost anything else (or just remove it).
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- searls 10y agoSorry the green bothers you. You could always click through to Vimeo, which is minimally green https://vimeo.com/189525997 https://vimeo.com/189525997
- TheBiv 10y agoAll good bud!
- 59nadir 10y agoYou can also just paste the URL (either the original URL or from Vimeo) as an argument to youtube-dl and it'll download it.
- searls 10y agoHi HN! I'm the speaker in this talk. Just a heads up that when I refer to "The Failing Hacker News", that's just all part of the satire. It's all love here!
- ambivalence 10y agoWell, we'd believe you if you said "Nobody has more respect for Hacker News than me. I know it, you know it, everybody knows it!"
- searls 10y agoNobody has more respect for Hacker News than me. I know it, you know it, everybody knows it!
- dccoolgai 10y agoHacker News is a disaster. It's rigged - you can't even mention Javascript without 10 people - nasty people - saying how everyone who uses JS is deplorable. It's the worst website in history.
- snovv_crash 10y agoUsing JS on the backend is deplorable. For front-end work I don't think there is currently much other choice...
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- zrail 10y ago(A whoosh so hard it even mussed Trump's hair)
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- kyledrake 10y agoI want one of those hats.
- tbrooks 10y agoI'm curious to hear your thoughts on Crystal... It seems like it takes the hits of Ruby and marries them with the LLVM, to make a really awesome, performant language without sacrificing developer happiness. (which is also a tagline of Elixir) Not asking you to start a flamewar, just genuinely curious about your thoughts on Crystal and if you've played with it.
- er0l 10y agoThe last 6 minutes with the hat off really struck a chord. Excellent talk and couldn't agree more.
- andrew_wc_brown 10y agoI loved this video because I got all the references. I sit on the Ruby on Rails facebook group, and its flooded with people from India trying to learn ruby. What I find unusual is they publish tutorials when there are plenty of good sources such as Railscasts, but its like the last 10 years doesn't exist to them and they rehash tutorials. Ruby was great before javascript frameworks. I haven't gotten around to using turbolinks but its strongly makes me question whether I should I stop using js frameworks all together and go full on into turbolinks and go back to a simpler time of rapid development. All of sudden everything in web-development requires you to be an engineer. I think there is a large influx of Uni CS graduates running startups and the only solution in a complex solution such as React. I can use React but I can't understand from a business perceptive why you would want to quadruple your development time and create such a high bar of entry for developers. #MakeWebDevelopmentGreatAgain #Remeber2006?Imemeber
- petercooper 10y agoWhat I find unusual is they publish tutorials when there are plenty of good sources such as Railscasts, but its like the last 10 years doesn't exist to them and they rehash tutorials. I think it's normal. I've seen it a lot amongst people who are actively learning. It was common in the late 00s in the Ruby world, and is currently common in the JavaScript, Elixir, Rust and Go worlds. It doesn't matter if they're "rehashing" - they're writing stuff as part of the learning process, we haven't got to read it, and I can only celebrate their enthusiasm. (Plus, on some topics, it's handy to have tutorials rewritten for the latest OS and database versions, etc, anyway since things always change slightly.)
- PopsiclePete 10y agoSo we can look forward to them creating another 20 test frameworks over the next 10 years? Wonderful...
- petercooper 10y agoMaybe. And that would be awesome, I think, because one of them would likely be better than what we have now and worth using.
- deathweasel 10y agoDo you know where to find the rest of the talks from this conference, by chance?
- bdcravens 10y agoIt was just last Friday (I was there; awesome conference). Usually Confreaks gets them up in a couple of weeks; here's the URL where they'll appear: http://confreaks.tv/events/keeprubyweird2016 http://confreaks.tv/events/keeprubyweird2016
- dluan 10y agoTIL 'Seattle-style' ruby
- searls 10y agoIt's a thing! They don't use parantheses! Like savages!
- dluan 10y agoHaving learned ruby in Seattle coffeeshop meetups, I never realized this. I also never realized that the weirdness that pervaded Seattle hacker meetups wasn't normal everywhere else, until I attended meetups in SF. NW rubyists are... weird. Also, totally agree with the end this video.
- alexilliamson 10y agoWent to a few seattle.rb meetups, and truly felt like the experiences captured what makes Seattle/Ruby weird, wonderful.
- jameskegel 10y agoI heard they don't even know how to use the three seashells..
- jjgreen 10y agoWe should send missionaries.
- photogrammetry 10y agoFYI, http://keeprubyweird.com/ http://keeprubyweird.com/ is hopelessly laggy and buggy on Chrome, but is mostly fine (if slow) in Firefox.
- pak 10y agoI love this brief history of the Ruby ecosystem and its community, maybe the Trump parody I've enjoyed most. Maybe, the best. Incidentally, I suppose the first 5 minutes of fighting with a three-way dongle and a poor connection, having to restart the talk, etc. is just a little preview of what every 2016 MBP owner will soon have the pleasure of experiencing themselves.
- searls 10y agoYeah I'm not thrilled. Turns out I got bit by this bug in the new 12" MB http://iphone.appleinsider.com/articles/16/10/20/owners-of-apples-2016-12-inch-macbook-report-usb-c-to-hdmi-adapter-flickering http://iphone.appleinsider.com/articles/16/10/20/owners-of-a...
- kimburgess 10y agoSide note - it looks like that issue (among others) may be with the apple adapter itself rather than the MB http://www.cypress.com/knowledge-base-article/known-issues-using-apple-usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter-and-apple-29w-usb http://www.cypress.com/knowledge-base-article/known-issues-u....
- igravious 10y ago"I'd rather that we all became heroes than just to select a handful arbitrarily" Preach it brother! I do miss _why and his antics though. While in major part satirical this talk does have a serious message. (See from about the twenty-second minute onwards.) Ruby is no longer the new hotness. Javascript is going from strength to strength, new functional programming languages like Elixir and Clojure on the rise, In the compiled language space there's Go and Rust. With our though leaders moving on who do we look to for direction? Imagine if DHH moves on, what do we do then? Justin's point is that the Ruby community needs to become bigger than its heroes. I see Python taking on the natural language processing, machine learning, computational linguistics space. That's a missed opportunity for Ruby. As awesome as Rails is, its swallowing of mind-share risks making Ruby a one trick pony. I think this is a conversation we need to have. I know lots of companies use Ruby but at one point I believed that Ruby had the potential to become something like the next Java, and I don't any more.
- hencq 10y agoI no longer do anything with Ruby anymore, but I used to for a while (purely as a hobby) around 2004. That was a wonderful time. Rails had just arrived and there seemed to be a lot of experimentation and quirkiness around the language. _why and others showed me the power of DSLs and clever metaprogramming hacks. From my exposure to metaprogramming I discovered other languages like Smalltalk and Lisp with its macros. I now mainly use Clojure, but I don't think I would ever have discovered that without Ruby.
- ttt111222333 10y agoI watched the whole thing. Quite entertaining, but the last 6 minutes is what matters. The strengths he mentions are: - tools and culture that's optimized for programmer happiness and productivity. - Promoting obviousness via the path of least surprise. - Consistency through well-considered conventions. - Carefully-designed value-based test suites. - Building long-term maintainable apps I have to ask because I am being exposed to Ruby at work right now and I find it, to be quite honest, a terrible language. I'm not trying to start a flame war, I am writing this cause I want to be open minded and have some hard-core rubyists point me in the direction of where I can learn what is good about this language. Specifically: 1) What tools / culture are optimized for programmer happiness & productivity in ruby? - I don't find anything special about ruby at all. Let me know what improves happiness / productivity. I would like to dl whatever tools / ide / plugins / gems or whatever and take a look into it. 2) Does ruby truly promote the path of least surprise? I am often surprised when looking at ruby code because I find traceability difficult in Ruby. Where does the function come from when looking at a ruby codebase? Is it from a gem? Is it from some parent class that this class has extended? I have no idea. How do people make Ruby 'less surprising'? 3) I have no idea what is consistent well considered conventions. How do I know something is a well-considered convention? Just use a rubocop linter? 4) Carefully-designed value-based test suites: Please explain this. What makes testing in Ruby so much better than in other languages? 5) Building long-term maintainable apps: What makes Ruby apps more maintainable?
- steveklabnik 10y agoTo add some quick answers in my experience: 1. It's a general attitude toward building interfaces; the reader of the code is put first. Yeah underneath things may be messy, but using those things should be nice. The onus is placed on the implementor, rather than the user. Ruby libraries will go to fairly extreme lengths to make things nice to use. 2. Matz has always said that he meant the path of least surprise to him, not to every programmer. I personally find this point the weakest. 3. Yes, stuff like rubocop can help teach you this, but you really pick it up from reading and writing others' code. 4. Ruby has had a test-focused bent for a long time; and so it has a lot of tools for testing. Back when I taught Ruby professionally, I even had an organization with a Perl webapp want me to teach their testers Ruby, to write test suites for the app in Ruby rather than Perl. Perl also has great testing, so I'm not sure I agreed with them in this case, but it is something many people feel. 5. I've seen many unmaintainable Ruby apps as well; I think this is something that should be aspired to overall, not necessarily something that's true today. Or rather, there's a period of development where people get enthused with a language, write tons of unmantainable code, step back, figure out why, and then the next iteration is better. Justin points out that node, being earlier in its life, might be in step 2, and that Ruby, being more mature, is on step 4 or 5 here.
- pjmlp 10y agoQuite interesting, maybe one should also check this older talk: Robert Martin, "What Killed Smalltalk Could Kill Ruby", 2009 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX3iRjKj7C0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX3iRjKj7C0
- PravlageTiem 10y agoKeep your weird contained to your monoliths and stop trying to colonize JavaScript!
- SocratesV 10y agoAll your base are belong to us.
- didibus 10y agoRuby has always been a jack of all trade, master of none. - It is not the fastest dynamic language like Clojure or LuaJit. - It does not have great C interop like Python. - It does not have an easily embeddedable runtime as Lua. - It is not the scripting language of all web browsers like JavaScript. - It does not have major big business backing like PHP. - It is not as good as Lisps for meta-programming and DSLs. - It is not amazing at concurrency like Erlang. - It is not the bleeding edge of untyped functional programming like Racket or Clojure. - It does not have every library under the sun like Python. - It is not as great at OOP as Smalltalk So while it's perfectly acceptable at all those things, it doesn't excel at anything. That's why I think it is loosing ground. It does have Ruby on Rails, and that's still arguably the best Web Framework.
- MrBra 10y agoWhat got Ruby popular (even before Rails) was its expressiveness. Concerning this aspect, I think it's still above the other languages you mentioned. So if you rephrase your sentence like: "jack of all trades, master of one", that is, expressiveness (leading to the "developer first attitude", developer happiness, ecc), then I think it nicely explains why it still represents a valid choice in many situations. If it also gets more solid in some of those areas you mentioned (and it's important to note that the community is focusing exactly on some of those areas: concurrency ("Guilds"), speed ("3x3"), ecc) then it might not only stop loosing momentum, but actually start shining again (note that I said "loosing momentum", not ground: it's easy to loose momentum when you are not a language backed by Google, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're loosing ground...) So, considering all this, why not keep it in consideration as an almost unique (expressiveness-wise) all-around tool, and keep an optimistic mind for what it is coming up with, rather than just tagging it as a falling technology?
- MrBra 10y agoRelevant: Ruby 3x3: Matz, Koichi, and Tenderlove on the future of Ruby Performance https://blog.heroku.com/ruby-3-by-3/ https://blog.heroku.com/ruby-3-by-3/