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It is. It's being shutdown. I believe all/most carriers are doing so, which is problematic for lots of cheap iot solutions. https://www.business.att.com/conten

It is. It's being shutdown. I believe all/most carriers are doing so, which is problematic for lots of cheap iot solutions. https://www.business.att.com/content/other/2G-Sunset-FAQ_2016.pdf https://www.business.att.com/content/other/2G-Sunset-FAQ_201...

sliverstorm 10y ago
Don't lots of phones still send SMS & voice calls over GSM/CDMA? I know VoLTE is appearing, but slowly & only on a couple flagship devices, and quality degrades faster with loss of signal...
- joecool1029 10y ago
  Haven't actually seen the signal degradation issues you speak of, probably offset by being able to use a lower band than GSM or HSPA for my carrier. Carriers have made it a policy to not whitelist imported devices for voLTE. IMEI needs to be whitelisted at carrier AND carrier file installed in phone needs to have support turned on. Either thing missing, no voLTE for you. EDIT: Forgot to mention, non-voLTE still signals with LTE for incoming calls and SMS, it'll handover to HSPA/CDMA/GSM within about 2 seconds of the signal coming in. Unfortunately I don't have specifics of this process.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- digi_owl 10y ago
  Actually i think most SMS is handled via "WAP" these days, meaning that it is carried as a short duration data connection rather than as a special packet in the cells control channel (GSM, dunno about how CDMA implemented it).
  - joecool1029 10y ago
    the GPRS setting is blocked on featurephones. Still opts for CSD sending there. Newer devices send over 'IMS' (which is voLTE, and also part of HSPA+) It was a funny loophole to get unlimited SMS on T-Mobile back when they just changed name from Voicestream.
    - digi_owl 10y ago
      I guess it depends on where in the world one lives. I'm not American, and thus my phone is free of carrier tampering. I even learned about the SMS over GPRS (thanks) thing because a relative of mine once owned a phone where we had to turn it off to actually get reliable SMS delivery, as it defaulted to GPRS mode.
digi_owl 10y ago
Elsewhere in the world UMTS is being retired while GSM is being retained because of all the devices (switches, sensors, etc) that use it.
- joecool1029 10y ago
  Kinda weird too considering you can run GSM in the HSPA guard bands without a large degradation of HSPA performance. Typically HSPA is 5mhz+5mhz FDMA, but the carrier is only 3.6mhz+3.6mhz and can be slimmed to 4.2mhzx4.2mhz on Ericsson equipment. NSN equipment can go as low as 3.8x3.8. In a slim HSPA situation you can run multiple 0.2x0.2 GSM channels. LTE I've seen all over deployed in 5mhzx5mhz, but I've never seen the 3mhzx3mhz or 1.4mhzx1.4mhz configurations in the wild (they would overload easy).
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    Best i can tell, it is for cost reasons. Non-phone GSM devices are widely operated because of low cost and low data speed needs (most of them just ping a SMS in some direction or other). UMTS deployments are more likely to be for bandwidth needs, and thus more likely to have moved to LTE setups already.
  - ingenium 10y ago
    Sprint has 3x3 deployed on band 26 in some boundary areas of the ibez. There have been some sites spotted in Columbus, Ohio along the ibez boundary that are 3x3 instead of the 5x5 Sprint has deployed everywhere else that's not within 100 km of Canada or Mexico.
- MrRadar 10y ago
  This probably has to do with the historic split between 2G/3G technologies among the major cellular carriers in the US. In the US if you want or need true nationwide coverage (say you are selling a retail IoT device and your customers expect it to work nearly anywhere) you pretty much have to go with AT&T or Verzion and switching a 2G or 3G device between them is impossible. This gives those companies a lot of power to dictate to customers what technologies they can use with their networks. Since LTE is the lowest common denominator technology between all carriers (and LTE is the only cellular technology with hardware that supports all cellular frequency bands in the US) the cellular market in the US is being pushed very strongly in an all-LTE direction. With the inclusion of Cat-M1 and Cat-NB1 modes in LTE release 13[0], LTE will soon be usable even for low-power IoT devices. AT&T and Verizon are already racing to support those standards on their networks.[1] [0] https://www.qualcomm.com/invention/technologies/lte/lte-iot https://www.qualcomm.com/invention/technologies/lte/lte-iot [1] http://www.fiercewireless.com/tech/verizon-at-t-both-claim-lte-cat-m-firsts-for-internet-things http://www.fiercewireless.com/tech/verizon-at-t-both-claim-l...
droopybuns 10y ago
Actually only AT&T is scheduled for a 2G sunset right now. Also I think one of the Northern European countries is choosing to maintain the GSM network and then retire UMTS. They're going to have a GSM for IOT and LTE for mobile communications. It's kind of insane. Wish I could find a source...
- joecool1029 10y ago
  Less insane when you consider the DDOS attacks from GSM connected IOT devices should be less bad than UMTS/LTE connected ones :) .
  - ethbro 10y ago
    2020, where the baseline packet wind of billions of compromised GSM IoT devices is an expected and handled feature of the internet.
    - r00fus 10y ago
      And a root nameserver DDOS is just like a coronal mass ejection?
      - ethbro 10y ago
        "I was born before there were network storms, son. You could load Wikipedia whenever you wanted. Truly, it was the best of times."
  - droopybuns 10y ago
    I don't think many GSM carriers allow internet originated, mobile terminated traffic, even for IoT. Mass compromise of IoT is going to be way less trivial for GSM capable devices than things on standard wifi. What I'm trying to say is that while your quip is entertaining: a) it's impractical to scan/compromise IoT devices remotely without a stupid design (by IoT standards stupid, btw- not regular internet design- we're talking REALLY REALLY STUPID). b) I would bet my mortgage that the logic you are presenting was never considered by the relevant carriers. They're not that smart.
Tharkun 10y ago
That doesn't solve anything as long as your phone supports 2G and falls back to it when 3G/4G are unavailable (i.e. when being deliberately jammed).
Tharkun 10y ago
That doesn't solve anything as long as your phone supports 2G and falls back to it when 3G/4G are unavailable (i.e. when being deliberately jammed).

sliverstorm 10y ago

Don't lots of phones still send SMS & voice calls over GSM/CDMA? I know VoLTE is appearing, but slowly & only on a couple flagship devices, and quality degrades faster with loss of signal...

joecool1029 10y ago
Haven't actually seen the signal degradation issues you speak of, probably offset by being able to use a lower band than GSM or HSPA for my carrier. Carriers have made it a policy to not whitelist imported devices for voLTE. IMEI needs to be whitelisted at carrier AND carrier file installed in phone needs to have support turned on. Either thing missing, no voLTE for you. EDIT: Forgot to mention, non-voLTE still signals with LTE for incoming calls and SMS, it'll handover to HSPA/CDMA/GSM within about 2 seconds of the signal coming in. Unfortunately I don't have specifics of this process.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
digi_owl 10y ago
Actually i think most SMS is handled via "WAP" these days, meaning that it is carried as a short duration data connection rather than as a special packet in the cells control channel (GSM, dunno about how CDMA implemented it).
- joecool1029 10y ago
  the GPRS setting is blocked on featurephones. Still opts for CSD sending there. Newer devices send over 'IMS' (which is voLTE, and also part of HSPA+) It was a funny loophole to get unlimited SMS on T-Mobile back when they just changed name from Voicestream.
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    I guess it depends on where in the world one lives. I'm not American, and thus my phone is free of carrier tampering. I even learned about the SMS over GPRS (thanks) thing because a relative of mine once owned a phone where we had to turn it off to actually get reliable SMS delivery, as it defaulted to GPRS mode.

digi_owl 10y ago

Elsewhere in the world UMTS is being retired while GSM is being retained because of all the devices (switches, sensors, etc) that use it.

joecool1029 10y ago
Kinda weird too considering you can run GSM in the HSPA guard bands without a large degradation of HSPA performance. Typically HSPA is 5mhz+5mhz FDMA, but the carrier is only 3.6mhz+3.6mhz and can be slimmed to 4.2mhzx4.2mhz on Ericsson equipment. NSN equipment can go as low as 3.8x3.8. In a slim HSPA situation you can run multiple 0.2x0.2 GSM channels. LTE I've seen all over deployed in 5mhzx5mhz, but I've never seen the 3mhzx3mhz or 1.4mhzx1.4mhz configurations in the wild (they would overload easy).
- digi_owl 10y ago
  Best i can tell, it is for cost reasons. Non-phone GSM devices are widely operated because of low cost and low data speed needs (most of them just ping a SMS in some direction or other). UMTS deployments are more likely to be for bandwidth needs, and thus more likely to have moved to LTE setups already.
- ingenium 10y ago
  Sprint has 3x3 deployed on band 26 in some boundary areas of the ibez. There have been some sites spotted in Columbus, Ohio along the ibez boundary that are 3x3 instead of the 5x5 Sprint has deployed everywhere else that's not within 100 km of Canada or Mexico.
MrRadar 10y ago
This probably has to do with the historic split between 2G/3G technologies among the major cellular carriers in the US. In the US if you want or need true nationwide coverage (say you are selling a retail IoT device and your customers expect it to work nearly anywhere) you pretty much have to go with AT&T or Verzion and switching a 2G or 3G device between them is impossible. This gives those companies a lot of power to dictate to customers what technologies they can use with their networks. Since LTE is the lowest common denominator technology between all carriers (and LTE is the only cellular technology with hardware that supports all cellular frequency bands in the US) the cellular market in the US is being pushed very strongly in an all-LTE direction. With the inclusion of Cat-M1 and Cat-NB1 modes in LTE release 13[0], LTE will soon be usable even for low-power IoT devices. AT&T and Verizon are already racing to support those standards on their networks.[1] [0] https://www.qualcomm.com/invention/technologies/lte/lte-iot https://www.qualcomm.com/invention/technologies/lte/lte-iot [1] http://www.fiercewireless.com/tech/verizon-at-t-both-claim-lte-cat-m-firsts-for-internet-things http://www.fiercewireless.com/tech/verizon-at-t-both-claim-l...

droopybuns 10y ago

Actually only AT&T is scheduled for a 2G sunset right now. Also I think one of the Northern European countries is choosing to maintain the GSM network and then retire UMTS. They're going to have a GSM for IOT and LTE for mobile communications. It's kind of insane. Wish I could find a source...

joecool1029 10y ago
Less insane when you consider the DDOS attacks from GSM connected IOT devices should be less bad than UMTS/LTE connected ones :) .
- ethbro 10y ago
  2020, where the baseline packet wind of billions of compromised GSM IoT devices is an expected and handled feature of the internet.
  - r00fus 10y ago
    And a root nameserver DDOS is just like a coronal mass ejection?
    - ethbro 10y ago
      "I was born before there were network storms, son. You could load Wikipedia whenever you wanted. Truly, it was the best of times."
- droopybuns 10y ago
  I don't think many GSM carriers allow internet originated, mobile terminated traffic, even for IoT. Mass compromise of IoT is going to be way less trivial for GSM capable devices than things on standard wifi. What I'm trying to say is that while your quip is entertaining: a) it's impractical to scan/compromise IoT devices remotely without a stupid design (by IoT standards stupid, btw- not regular internet design- we're talking REALLY REALLY STUPID). b) I would bet my mortgage that the logic you are presenting was never considered by the relevant carriers. They're not that smart.

Tharkun 10y ago

That doesn't solve anything as long as your phone supports 2G and falls back to it when 3G/4G are unavailable (i.e. when being deliberately jammed).

Tharkun 10y ago

That doesn't solve anything as long as your phone supports 2G and falls back to it when 3G/4G are unavailable (i.e. when being deliberately jammed).