6 ms·

I feel like I'm missing something. If you don't need MagSafe, USB-A or SD card slots and all you want is Thunderbolt 3 / USB-C including for charging, then what

I feel like I'm missing something. If you don't need MagSafe, USB-A or SD card slots and all you want is Thunderbolt 3 / USB-C including for charging, then what's wrong with the MacBook Pro?

wffurr 10y ago
Only thing I can tell is missing from the author's list of preferences is "7th generation Core i7 CPU" which the 4th pick in the list also lacks.
- bungle 10y ago
  And that preference is a weird one as those 6th generation processors in Macbook Pro's are a way better than already released 7th generation CPUs. Also the integrated GPU is better.
icebraining 10y ago
Reading the earlier post, it seems the extra need is an escape key, which probably wasn't explicitly written since, you know, it's not exactly a differentiator among non-Apple laptops. http://www.onebigfluke.com/2016/10/lamenting-progress.html http://www.onebigfluke.com/2016/10/lamenting-progress.html
- bslatkin 10y ago
  OP here: For the record I'm a Sublime / Emacs user. From this earlier post: "I philosophically disagree with the idea of looking at your keyboard to comprehend its interface."
  - comex 10y ago
    I generally agree that you shouldn't have to look at the keyboard, but I'm currently hoping that peripheral vision plus muscle memory will be enough to make up for the lack of tactile feedback when it comes to commonly used applications. (I haven't tried out the new MBP yet, and I'm going to do so before ordering, but that's my hope.) In return, I'd get the ability to use slide controls, and have both system controls (volume, brightness) and application-specific ones directly on the bar rather than having to choose Fn for one - which makes for terrible ergonomics. Plus, Touch ID. But then, I don't care about the Esc key because I've had Caps Lock mapped to it for years.
keithly 10y ago
RAM limited to 16GB LPDDR3, not upgradable
- pwinnski 10y ago
  The article states that he only wants 16 GB anyway, so I'm a little puzzled, too.
cvwright 10y ago
Another way to look at this post: Here are some of the best laptops that you will be able to buy used for cheap in 12-18 months while the new Macbooks are still expensive. I used this approach in my student days and it worked pretty well given the very limited budget.
- wyager 10y ago
  They lose value quickly because they're liable to break.
- astrodust 10y ago
  The resale value on a MacBook is actually crazy high, so that's something to consider. I've heard stories of people buying Apple hardware at a steep student discount (20% or more) and re-selling it at the end of the year...for a profit. Most PC laptops are worthless after 12-18 months of use. You either give them away or throw them out. If you buy a low-end system it's junk, and if you buy a high-end one, the only people looking for such a system would want to buy it new anyway, so you're stuck in a trap. A MacBook often sells for a minimum of 50% of its purchase price if in good condition, possibly more depending on demand. The metal cases generally hold up a lot better than the plastic housing on less expensive laptops.
  - gnicholas 10y ago
    Student discounts used to be much better 10-15 years ago. These days, the only really good deals are on older hardware—sometimes previous-generation. I've seen these units sold at campus bookstores of large universities (Stanford, UCLA) but never on the web. The last time I bought a Mac with an education discount, the computer was about 7% cheaper, but the AppleCare was 30% off. Not a bad discount overall, but not enough in the hardware department to break even on a resale, even new in box.
  - mr_spothawk 10y ago
    > Most PC laptops are worthless after 12-18 months of use. I'm on a Lenovo x220... it's plenty fast for most of my work. runs ubuntu like a champ. has, hands down, the best laptop keyboard that's ever been made. and only cost me $350, plus there's a strong aftermarket parts option. Since i don't spend my time watching media, i don't have to worry about fancy monitors or display ports (though i could have gotten a Thunderbolt port). This is a 5 year old laptop. The battery lasts at least 6 hours.
v512 10y ago
Its very expensive for what it offers.
- TruthSHIFT 10y ago
  Are there other laptops that offer what Apple offers?
  - NEDM64 10y ago
    No.
- snowwrestler 10y ago
  Depends on how you value the features and build quality of the case. Apple laptop cases are extremely expensive (each one is individually machined from solid aluminum), but the result is a top-notch combination of strength to weight ratio.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
    I've bought three Apple laptops, and will probably continue to buy them. But.... Machining a laptop chassis from solid aluminium isn't what makes Apple laptops expensive. Sure, it does add to the cost. What makes Apple laptops extremely expensive is the ridiculous mark-up Apple charge.
    - astrodust 10y ago
      You call it "ridiculous", but it's not like they charge you a bunch of money and give you nothing. You get a single vendor for operating system and hardware, free support at their retail stores, and free updates to the operating system. People these days whinging about "extremely expensive" have no idea. Computers used to be stupidly expensive and ridiculously slow, no matter the brand. We've been spoiled by these vendors willing to sacrifice everything to slash costs and margins. Do you want a good keyboard, a great trackpad, and a durable metal housing? Be prepared to pay more than you would for some system built out of what was salvaged from the garbage bins of Dell's factory. Every single one of these alternatives listed is over $1000, and that segment of the PC market is tiny. Most get all dizzy at the thought of spending more than $500 on a laptop, that's what the industry's conditioned people to think.
bitshiffed 10y ago
Exactly. This is a list of everything the new MacBooks already have. It sounds like the author should just get the new MBP. Some of the listed attributes are just odd too: only 16GB RAM? No HDMI? No SD? Guessing from the relative volumes of complaints that I've seen, a more useful list would probably be something comparable to the previous MBP, but with more RAM and a better CPU, and bonus points for a dedicated GPU.
hyperbovine 10y ago
Didn't you get this week's memo? Apple will vanish into a puff of smoke early next year. Discuss.
MatthiasP 10y ago
The ultra shallow keyboard. I don't get how people would use that willingly for coding.
- _cal 10y ago
  I have the baby Macbook 12" that I bought specifically for programming on the go. It took a bit to get used to, but now I love that keyboard.
- santaclaus 10y ago
  I prefer shallow keyboards for coding -- large travel keys drive me crazy.
- AceJohnny2 10y ago
  This is my biggest concern as well from trying one out, but apparently you get used to it. I currently use daily: - a Microsoft Ergonomic Natural 4000 [1] - A Kinesis Freestyle 2 [2] - a Macbook Pro (2014) That's a wide range of keyboard travels and force requirements, and I'm now comfortable with all. A friend got the new MBP and said he got used to its keyboard "within a day". [1] https://www.microsoft.com/accessories/en-us/products/keyboards/natural-ergonomic-keyboard-4000/b2m-00012 https://www.microsoft.com/accessories/en-us/products/keyboar... [2] https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-for-pc-us/ https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-for-pc-us/ That pic doesn't do it justice. With the risers that come with the "VIP kit", you can tilt and angle it to your comfort.
smoser 10y ago
The problem is that I can't buy anything from Apple that connects directly to it that isn't a dongle.
- bluedino 10y ago
  Anything from much of anyone, not just Apple.
- NEDM64 10y ago
  Wrong. You don't need a dongle to connect nothing from Apple.
- LaSombra 10y ago
  You can plug the Google Pixel or the latest Samsung phones, for example. The irony :-)
  - NEDM64 10y ago
    The USB-C phone from Samsung got recalled because exploding.

I feel like I'm missing something. If you don't need MagSafe, USB-A or SD card slots and all you want is Thunderbolt 3 / USB-C including for charging, then what's wrong with the MacBook Pro?

wffurr 10y ago

Only thing I can tell is missing from the author's list of preferences is "7th generation Core i7 CPU" which the 4th pick in the list also lacks.

bungle 10y ago
And that preference is a weird one as those 6th generation processors in Macbook Pro's are a way better than already released 7th generation CPUs. Also the integrated GPU is better.

icebraining 10y ago

Reading the earlier post, it seems the extra need is an escape key, which probably wasn't explicitly written since, you know, it's not exactly a differentiator among non-Apple laptops. http://www.onebigfluke.com/2016/10/lamenting-progress.html http://www.onebigfluke.com/2016/10/lamenting-progress.html

bslatkin 10y ago
OP here: For the record I'm a Sublime / Emacs user. From this earlier post: "I philosophically disagree with the idea of looking at your keyboard to comprehend its interface."
- comex 10y ago
  I generally agree that you shouldn't have to look at the keyboard, but I'm currently hoping that peripheral vision plus muscle memory will be enough to make up for the lack of tactile feedback when it comes to commonly used applications. (I haven't tried out the new MBP yet, and I'm going to do so before ordering, but that's my hope.) In return, I'd get the ability to use slide controls, and have both system controls (volume, brightness) and application-specific ones directly on the bar rather than having to choose Fn for one - which makes for terrible ergonomics. Plus, Touch ID. But then, I don't care about the Esc key because I've had Caps Lock mapped to it for years.

keithly 10y ago

RAM limited to 16GB LPDDR3, not upgradable

pwinnski 10y ago
The article states that he only wants 16 GB anyway, so I'm a little puzzled, too.

cvwright 10y ago

Another way to look at this post: Here are some of the best laptops that you will be able to buy used for cheap in 12-18 months while the new Macbooks are still expensive. I used this approach in my student days and it worked pretty well given the very limited budget.

wyager 10y ago
They lose value quickly because they're liable to break.
astrodust 10y ago
The resale value on a MacBook is actually crazy high, so that's something to consider. I've heard stories of people buying Apple hardware at a steep student discount (20% or more) and re-selling it at the end of the year...for a profit. Most PC laptops are worthless after 12-18 months of use. You either give them away or throw them out. If you buy a low-end system it's junk, and if you buy a high-end one, the only people looking for such a system would want to buy it new anyway, so you're stuck in a trap. A MacBook often sells for a minimum of 50% of its purchase price if in good condition, possibly more depending on demand. The metal cases generally hold up a lot better than the plastic housing on less expensive laptops.
- gnicholas 10y ago
  Student discounts used to be much better 10-15 years ago. These days, the only really good deals are on older hardware—sometimes previous-generation. I've seen these units sold at campus bookstores of large universities (Stanford, UCLA) but never on the web. The last time I bought a Mac with an education discount, the computer was about 7% cheaper, but the AppleCare was 30% off. Not a bad discount overall, but not enough in the hardware department to break even on a resale, even new in box.
- mr_spothawk 10y ago
  > Most PC laptops are worthless after 12-18 months of use. I'm on a Lenovo x220... it's plenty fast for most of my work. runs ubuntu like a champ. has, hands down, the best laptop keyboard that's ever been made. and only cost me $350, plus there's a strong aftermarket parts option. Since i don't spend my time watching media, i don't have to worry about fancy monitors or display ports (though i could have gotten a Thunderbolt port). This is a 5 year old laptop. The battery lasts at least 6 hours.

v512 10y ago

Its very expensive for what it offers.

TruthSHIFT 10y ago
Are there other laptops that offer what Apple offers?
- NEDM64 10y ago
  No.
snowwrestler 10y ago
Depends on how you value the features and build quality of the case. Apple laptop cases are extremely expensive (each one is individually machined from solid aluminum), but the result is a top-notch combination of strength to weight ratio.
- TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
  I've bought three Apple laptops, and will probably continue to buy them. But.... Machining a laptop chassis from solid aluminium isn't what makes Apple laptops expensive. Sure, it does add to the cost. What makes Apple laptops extremely expensive is the ridiculous mark-up Apple charge.
  - astrodust 10y ago
    You call it "ridiculous", but it's not like they charge you a bunch of money and give you nothing. You get a single vendor for operating system and hardware, free support at their retail stores, and free updates to the operating system. People these days whinging about "extremely expensive" have no idea. Computers used to be stupidly expensive and ridiculously slow, no matter the brand. We've been spoiled by these vendors willing to sacrifice everything to slash costs and margins. Do you want a good keyboard, a great trackpad, and a durable metal housing? Be prepared to pay more than you would for some system built out of what was salvaged from the garbage bins of Dell's factory. Every single one of these alternatives listed is over $1000, and that segment of the PC market is tiny. Most get all dizzy at the thought of spending more than $500 on a laptop, that's what the industry's conditioned people to think.

bitshiffed 10y ago

Exactly. This is a list of everything the new MacBooks already have. It sounds like the author should just get the new MBP. Some of the listed attributes are just odd too: only 16GB RAM? No HDMI? No SD? Guessing from the relative volumes of complaints that I've seen, a more useful list would probably be something comparable to the previous MBP, but with more RAM and a better CPU, and bonus points for a dedicated GPU.

hyperbovine 10y ago

Didn't you get this week's memo? Apple will vanish into a puff of smoke early next year. Discuss.

MatthiasP 10y ago

The ultra shallow keyboard. I don't get how people would use that willingly for coding.

_cal 10y ago
I have the baby Macbook 12" that I bought specifically for programming on the go. It took a bit to get used to, but now I love that keyboard.
santaclaus 10y ago
I prefer shallow keyboards for coding -- large travel keys drive me crazy.
AceJohnny2 10y ago
This is my biggest concern as well from trying one out, but apparently you get used to it. I currently use daily: - a Microsoft Ergonomic Natural 4000 [1] - A Kinesis Freestyle 2 [2] - a Macbook Pro (2014) That's a wide range of keyboard travels and force requirements, and I'm now comfortable with all. A friend got the new MBP and said he got used to its keyboard "within a day". [1] https://www.microsoft.com/accessories/en-us/products/keyboards/natural-ergonomic-keyboard-4000/b2m-00012 https://www.microsoft.com/accessories/en-us/products/keyboar... [2] https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-for-pc-us/ https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-for-pc-us/ That pic doesn't do it justice. With the risers that come with the "VIP kit", you can tilt and angle it to your comfort.

smoser 10y ago

The problem is that I can't buy anything from Apple that connects directly to it that isn't a dongle.

bluedino 10y ago
Anything from much of anyone, not just Apple.
NEDM64 10y ago
Wrong. You don't need a dongle to connect nothing from Apple.
LaSombra 10y ago
You can plug the Google Pixel or the latest Samsung phones, for example. The irony :-)
- NEDM64 10y ago
  The USB-C phone from Samsung got recalled because exploding.