4 ms·

How can thinkpads reasonably be trusted after superfish though? Some security agencies don't even allow Lenovo hardware onsite, sort of implies something...

bildung 10y ago
"Lenovo ideapad (cheap ones, superfish, avoid) and Lenovo Thinkpad (no superfish, mostly good) should be thought separate manufacturers. They're not comparable."
- ceejayoz 10y ago
  I'm a bit dubious of the idea that you can trust the parent company after the Superfish incident.
  - vbezhenar 10y ago
    Why would you use preinstalled OS anyway? Every manufacturer installs ton of unneeded crapware. Just download pristine Windows iso and install it from scratch.
    - dagw 10y ago
      A clean windows install wouldn't make any difference. Lenovo installed their malware in the BIOS and set it to automatically make sure it was present, and reinstall itself if necessary, on every reboot.
      - vbezhenar 10y ago
        Wow, that's really bad, didn't know about it. Can't even imagine how buggy their reinstall code would be.
    - massysett 10y ago
      Because I shouldn't have to do work just so the machine is usable. If I bought a PC, I would buy it from Microsoft, as they don't sell them with all the crap.
      - logfromblammo 10y ago
        ...other than first-party Microsoft crap. But you would get that anyway in any other OEM version of Windows, along with additional third-party crap. As long as you're willing to put in a tiny bit of effort, you can know that all the software on your machine is coming from known people and companies, that you chose to trust. Apple is the only company I would trust [at this time] to put only Apple software on retail Apple hardware. But that is because even if anybody was willing to comply with the inevitable list of strict requirements, Apple would almost certainly try to charge the third-parties so much to bundle their software, that no one would reasonably be able to justify the cost. Microsoft, I could see making a deal with some third-party to put into certain models of the Surface. It might just be something like hardware drivers with a Windows GUI to change some settings, but they would do it.
      - selectodude 10y ago
        Which sell for about the same price as a MacBook Pro. I'm sure the margins are good, but the cost to make a high quality laptop seems to be going up.
- mcphage 10y ago
  Except they're not separate manufacturers...
  - scholia 10y ago
    Actually, they may well be separate manufacturers. See may comment above https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12845499 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12845499
  - anexprogrammer 10y ago
    I knew throwing personal experience out was going to open a can of worms! :) They seem to act like they're separate. Hardware build and installed software is entirely different. I was under the impression they still operated as separate divisions. UK Support was even on separate numbers until fairly recently - now it separates at top level. If Lenovo get a strike, Sony probably should for the rootkit. If you're not comfortable ignore my "probably wrong" suggestions! :) First thing I do with any Win machine is remove the crap and demos or clean install and add drivers. Or occasionally start immediately with !Windows.

bildung 10y ago

"Lenovo ideapad (cheap ones, superfish, avoid) and Lenovo Thinkpad (no superfish, mostly good) should be thought separate manufacturers. They're not comparable."

ceejayoz 10y ago
I'm a bit dubious of the idea that you can trust the parent company after the Superfish incident.
- vbezhenar 10y ago
  Why would you use preinstalled OS anyway? Every manufacturer installs ton of unneeded crapware. Just download pristine Windows iso and install it from scratch.
  - dagw 10y ago
    A clean windows install wouldn't make any difference. Lenovo installed their malware in the BIOS and set it to automatically make sure it was present, and reinstall itself if necessary, on every reboot.
    - vbezhenar 10y ago
      Wow, that's really bad, didn't know about it. Can't even imagine how buggy their reinstall code would be.
  - massysett 10y ago
    Because I shouldn't have to do work just so the machine is usable. If I bought a PC, I would buy it from Microsoft, as they don't sell them with all the crap.
    - logfromblammo 10y ago
      ...other than first-party Microsoft crap. But you would get that anyway in any other OEM version of Windows, along with additional third-party crap. As long as you're willing to put in a tiny bit of effort, you can know that all the software on your machine is coming from known people and companies, that you chose to trust. Apple is the only company I would trust [at this time] to put only Apple software on retail Apple hardware. But that is because even if anybody was willing to comply with the inevitable list of strict requirements, Apple would almost certainly try to charge the third-parties so much to bundle their software, that no one would reasonably be able to justify the cost. Microsoft, I could see making a deal with some third-party to put into certain models of the Surface. It might just be something like hardware drivers with a Windows GUI to change some settings, but they would do it.
    - selectodude 10y ago
      Which sell for about the same price as a MacBook Pro. I'm sure the margins are good, but the cost to make a high quality laptop seems to be going up.
mcphage 10y ago
Except they're not separate manufacturers...
- scholia 10y ago
  Actually, they may well be separate manufacturers. See may comment above https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12845499 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12845499
- anexprogrammer 10y ago
  I knew throwing personal experience out was going to open a can of worms! :) They seem to act like they're separate. Hardware build and installed software is entirely different. I was under the impression they still operated as separate divisions. UK Support was even on separate numbers until fairly recently - now it separates at top level. If Lenovo get a strike, Sony probably should for the rootkit. If you're not comfortable ignore my "probably wrong" suggestions! :) First thing I do with any Win machine is remove the crap and demos or clean install and add drivers. Or occasionally start immediately with !Windows.