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" . . . sometimes called the Mid-Atlantic Accent, which is deeply offensive to those, like me, from the actual Mid-Atlantic . . . " " . . . elocution class is
by CapitalistCartr 10y ago
" . . . sometimes called the Mid-Atlantic Accent, which is deeply offensive to those, like me, from the actual Mid-Atlantic . . . "
" . . . elocution class is wildly offensive to most of the modern linguists . . . "
What is it with this childish writing, being "deeply, wildly" offended at, instead of disagreeing with? Its the wrinting caliber of a young teen, and it seems to be popular.
- neffy 10y agoMermaid infiltration style? Colour me also more than slightly intrigued by this idea of being from the "actual Mid-Atlantic"- which was an ocean last time anybody checked.
- sverige 10y agoI think "Mid-Atlantic" in this case refers to the accents commonly found from Delaware and Maryland south to the northern parts of North Carolina.
- CRConrad 10y agoOch att döma av citatet ur artikeln ett par poster högre upp så har du fel.
- flanbiscuit 10y agoI was under the same impression. I thought they called it the "mid-atlantic" accent because it was halfway between the US and British accent. Boy do I feel stupid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-Atlantic_states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-Atlantic_states
- cperciva 10y agoIt is called a "mid-Atlantic" accent because it's halfway between American and British; it has nothing to do with mid-Atlantic states. The author even acknowledges this in the sentence immediately following the one where she claims to be deeply offended: "What that name means in this case is that the accent can be placed somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, halfway between New England and England". This is simply poor writing.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- GirlsCanCode 10y agoIf you actually read the article, you would have seen that the author explains mid-Atlantic exactly that way. Why do you criticize articles you haven't read? @dang: Ban this guy.
- nptatall 10y ago> Colour me also more than slightly intrigued by this idea of being from the "actual Mid-Atlantic"- which was an ocean last time anybody checked. That is exactly why "mid-atlantic accent" is called that[0]. It's halfway between American and British, and it's the native accent of somewhere indistinct where nobody is actually from. ---- [0] Also, since apparently this needs to be explicitly stated in this ridiculous, Gell-Mann-Effect-in-full-force HN thread: "mid-atlantic accent" and "trans-atlantic accent" are synonyms. They are different words for the same thing. BOTH ARE RIGHT.
- sverige 10y agoI have worked with several people who were born and raised in Richmond, Virginia, which is about as mid-Atlantic as it gets. One had very earnestly replaced her accent with that of her adopted Austin, Texas. The other two tried to outdo each other in snobbishness whenever there was a conflict. I don't find it to be a very pleasant accent, but then again, I'm not from there.
- vacri 10y agoI was trying to find some sort of self-deprecating humour to explain this kind of obvious hyperbole, but it's not there. If the author was a linguist worth their salt, then they should know the perils of normalising such statements against trivial concepts.
- logicallee 10y agoI didn't find the author credible because of their statements going back 'centuries' ("Skinner created one of the most non-neutral accents in the past few centuries" repeated somewhere else in the article which I didn't find just now), but despite this I found it interesting. I looked for youtube clips from several films mentioned, to come to my own conclusion. They matched what the author reports. So I enjoyed the article but (for myself) didn't necessarily judge the historical account to be accurate. Just read it with a grain of salt.
- danek 10y agoWhat's with this trend of calling an author's writing "childish" instead of saying you don't care for his style?
- openasocket 10y agoOffensive can also mean something inducing disgust, as in "an offensive odor." That's actually the older usage for it. I've been reading some older novels lately and saw "offensive" used in that way a lot.
- tluyben2 10y agoHmm. That's the meaning I usually hear it used for. What other meaning are you talking about?
- openasocket 10y agoThe other meaning is referring to something that is racist/sexist/etc. I suppose technically that's still "inducing disgust" but it's different enough to be considered a separate definition. For instance, I'm offended by the state of some of the code at work, but I'm not filing an HR complaint about it :)
- lucozade 10y agoI always took that usage to come from the idea of offending one's sensibilities. That's also how I took the author's use of offensive i.e. it offended his sensibility that mid-Atlantic has two meanings (or whatever it was that he was offended by).
- openasocket 10y agoI read it as he doesn't like the accent, and doesn't like that it's associated with him. It's a joke, a pun on the two meanings of "mid-Atlantic"
- oldmanjay 10y agoIt's just straight up bad writing. At least we weren't told to be horrified by anything.
- nailer 10y ago> " . . . sometimes called the Mid-Atlantic Accent, which is deeply offensive to those, like me, from the actual Mid-Atlantic . . . " Speak to any acting coach: it's more frequently called a Trans-Atlantic accent. Edit: be less absolute.
- jewbacca 10y ago> This is incorrect anyway Even the Wikipedia article is titled "Mid-atlantic accent": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-Atlantic_accent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-Atlantic_accent What is it about this article that seems to so efficiently be bringing the armchair prescriptivists out of the woodwork?
- nailer 10y agoAs wikipedia mentions, don't cite wikipedia itself. The first reference on the site prefers 'Transatlantic' too: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/08/oh-old-timey-movie-voice http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/08/oh-old-timey-m...
- jewbacca 10y agoKey word: prefers. The grandparent comment is framing this as "that word is wrong, because in the context I've encountered it in, we used this other, right, word". When, assuredly meeting whatever measure you might use to qualify this besides the GP poster's personal experience (... though they do seem to recognize its meaning well enough), "mid-atlantic accent" and "trans-atlantic accent" are synonyms. ---- Like, here's how this conversation looks in a different domain: Article: ... so I found this horrific spaghetti code for traversing the tree ... GGP comment: What is with this childish writing, being "horrific spaghetti" code, instead of not-yet-organized? It's the writing calibre of a young teen, and it seems to be popular. [actual quote. this is the thread we are participating in.] GP comment: This is incorrect anyway. Speak to any network administrator: it's called iterating me: Even the wikipedia article says "Traversing a tree involves iterating over all nodes in some manner" you: As wikipedia mentions, don't cite wikipedia itself. The first reference on that article prefers "iterating".
- nptatall 10y agoThe first thing is obviously playful hyperbole, but I don't know about "childish". But, regarding your second quote... if you bring up the idea of a way of speaking being "better" or "worse" to a modern linguist, trust, me: you will understand why the author uses "wildly offended" instead of just "offended". If the author had just kept it at "The entire concept of an elocution class is offensive to most of the modern linguists I know", that would not at all be sufficiently conveying the degree to which the idea of a prescribed elocution class is violently at odds with everything most modern linguists believe in.
- zeveb 10y ago> if you bring up the idea of a way of speaking being "better" or "worse" to a modern linguist, trust, me: you will understand why the author uses "wildly offended" instead of just "offended". Not all modern linguists are descriptivists; some are in fact prescriptivists. It is a pretty fundamental personality divide: some people take the world as it is, others as it could be (or ought to be).
- nptatall 10y agoPoint me towards a single modern academic prescriptive linguist with publicly-available writing in english, and I will be grateful and fascinated. Even just a single modern prescriptive linguist, without any of those other qualifiers. I would genuinely love to see it.
- zeveb 10y agoGeoff Nunberg certainly sounds like he's prescriptive in at least some ways: http://www.ling.upenn.edu/courses/Fall_2016/ling001/Nunberg.html http://www.ling.upenn.edu/courses/Fall_2016/ling001/Nunberg.... Granted, it's from 1983, but Dr. Nunberg is still alive & writing. My own thought is that the question, 'is linguistics descriptive or prescriptive?' is as wrong as the question, 'is salvation through faith or through works?' Linguistics can both describe language as she is spoke and prescribe the best ways to speak. There's nothing inherent in describing current practise that obligates one to applaud that practise; nor is there anything inherent in prescribing better use that prevents one from recognising that other uses exist. The logical end of stating that all that matters is describing language as it's used, and not bothering to prescribe the best ways to use it, as to both not end up meaning-stand @talk.
- nkrisc 10y agoShall I fetch your smoking jacket and a brandy so you may tell us how real adults write? I'll also not point out the elementary writing mistakes in your own comment.