7 ms·

There's 2 possible reasons. 1) It really is near vaporware just being shown off in perfect conditions to seem exceptional. 2) It actually does work that much

There's 2 possible reasons. 1) It really is near vaporware just being shown off in perfect conditions to seem exceptional. 2) It actually does work that much better with only $1000 worth of hardware and responding would give away the secret sauce. I don't give much credit to the theory that they didn't see this coming and were caught flat-footed by the sudden requirements. Oh and:Final speculation: there’s a reason it was called the Comma One. Where there's a Comma One, there's likely to be a Comma Two I was really hoping it was actually a C64 reference, namely: "where the 'drive' goes"... ,8,1

teddyh 10y ago
> I was really hoping it was actually a C64 reference, namely: "where the 'drive' goes"... ,8,1 Actually, the drive number is the “8”; the “1” is a flag which means to load the program to the same address in memory it was saved from, instead of to the default BASIC program start address.
- swayvil 10y ago
  In all fairness...
- noonespecial 10y ago
  That's what I was saying. When you use the drive(8), it automatically goes where its supposed to(1).
ethanbond 10y ago
Or, you know, the gigantic field of possibilities between those two things: it works a little bit under some conditions. Fortunately for us and unfortunately for Hotz's ego, regulators look down upon things that work a little bit under some conditions when they also happen to control two ton metal cages capable of traveling at 120mph. > it's [the] NHTSA that remains behind the curve in evaluating the myriad different technologies Uhhh... that was exactly what they were requesting to do with their letter.
- Fricken 10y ago
  The one fatality with Autopilot happened because the system worked too well, the driver came to trust it when he shouldn't have. The shittier the Comma one is, the more in-the-loop the human has to be, and risk compensation becomes less of a factor.
  - emp_zealoth 10y ago
    What in the fucking hell are you talking about? A system that is seemingly half blind (repeatedly crashes into vehicles that only partially obstruct the lane), decapitates a guy, crashes another one into a fucking post It didn't work too well. It pretended to work too well and gotten people killed. There is a reason MobileEye walked away from Tesla They are being rather cavalier with their attitude to safety, apparently. (Apparently the falcon wing doors can go nom nom on you if you are not careful too - sure the guys are laughing their asses off, but it's not a good design) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdPPp3hoGQ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdPPp3hoGQ8 EDIT: OR, EVEN BETTER: http://jalopnik.com/did-tesla-quietly-remove-a-safety-feature-from-the-mode-1786000681 http://jalopnik.com/did-tesla-quietly-remove-a-safety-featur...
    - Fricken 10y ago
      One fatality in 200 million miles of driving reflects a cavalier attitude to safety? It's not like the guy who died in that accident wasn't familiar with autopilot's reccommended usage, he read the manual, Tesla made it pretty clear you still gotta watch the road while it's engaged. I mean, if you're into misusing cars, any of them will allow you to accelerate into a brick wall if that's your inclination. I'm not sure what Falcon wing doors has to do with any of this.
      - jayjay71 10y ago
        There is at least 1 other death in China where autopilot is cited as the cause, and there are many other accidents in China which are not widely reported in the United States (it's easy to find several on Google though, many of which are even posted on YouTube with video proof). Statistically speaking, Tesla's autopilot is more dangerous than regular driving. They spun bad statistics to claim otherwise. They ignored the difference between highway driving (which is safer) and all driving, and ignored demographics (most Tesla drivers are older and affluent). It is too early to really draw many conclusions about autopilot, because there is actually very little data. Comparing the number of miles driven by Tesla to the number of miles driven by all other cars in one year is a difference of several orders of magnitude. But they are under investigation, and as more time passes the more damning it seems for Tesla.
jimjimjim 10y ago
bonus points for mention of c64 LOAD "",8,1 or even more old-school LOAD "",1,1
- noonespecial 10y ago
  1,1 !? - Oh hell no. I'm not waiting around for your stupid tape. Get a floppy drive like the cool kids.
csixty4 10y ago
This thread makes me happy.
- csixty4 10y ago
  Wow. When I posted this, the only replies were about the Commodore line. Now there's an actual conversation going on!
bertil 10y ago
I would include an (unlikely) 3: Hotz really, really does not want to be in the same room as the Feds (he is a confessed hacker) or spend time dealing with them. Maybe more likely: he can sell a ton _now_ in China, had a partner car company, and expect that having those work there would make his success in US either negligible in comparison, or faster thanks the example.
agumonkey 10y ago
I have yet to see the simplest proof that comma ai work is just a cute trained NN over a camera, piped to basic controls, with some potential creative ideas (in a conf, hotz mentioned working on time based depth inference instead of the traditional stereo camera setup). I'm biased for conservative companies, I have no idea what they're doing and how much resources. Maybe they're doing something at the same level. I believe they have more refined physics model to compute surroundings and car physics in a way to ensure sane and safe behaviour. Exception made of Tesla AP, which I always found borderline lying. The medias and the crowd seeems to believe wild hacking and current year tech is giving you better products, but physics are physics. I'm still waiting for a proof of solid math, system and safety engineering there. psedit; I forgot, I peaked at commaai github repo, the NN code is way above my head and what I could imagine, so I have to give hotz' team that. Some people really have magic auras.
- Pica_soO 10y ago
  Actually all my money was on google, i expected them to drive into the scrapfield, after the car companys and Tesla pushed each other into a early market situation and upped Legislation, kicking themselves out of the market, with a carnaggedon. But they backed out, because their managers want the chicken to exist before the egg. So, why not bet on the outsider?
  - agumonkey 10y ago
    I liked Google's approach a lot. It seemed justly dimensioned, came out of Thrun DARPA success, had years and millions of miles of testing. What's not to love. Also G has the lever to accelerate and change tech if their old approach is obsolete. Sad they went silent since a year or so. I said it in other place, including HN, I don't consider Hotz an outsider, but mostly glorified hacker (his attitude with institutions and media don't help me clear this impression); and I don't think hacker mentality bodes well with this task.
    - Pica_soO 10y ago
      Actually, that is a very humanistic point of view. There are third-world countrys where a margin of life-loss is considered "acceptable". And sorry, but Teslas approach, seems to be a similar hacky "Wing-it with PR-Guns blazing".
nkrisc 10y ago
I believe Arthur C. Clarke said something that's relevant here, "technology that's indistinguishable from magic is probably bullshit." No, that's not right...

teddyh 10y ago

> I was really hoping it was actually a C64 reference, namely: "where the 'drive' goes"... ,8,1 Actually, the drive number is the “8”; the “1” is a flag which means to load the program to the same address in memory it was saved from, instead of to the default BASIC program start address.

swayvil 10y ago
In all fairness...
noonespecial 10y ago
That's what I was saying. When you use the drive(8), it automatically goes where its supposed to(1).

ethanbond 10y ago

Or, you know, the gigantic field of possibilities between those two things: it works a little bit under some conditions. Fortunately for us and unfortunately for Hotz's ego, regulators look down upon things that work a little bit under some conditions when they also happen to control two ton metal cages capable of traveling at 120mph. > it's [the] NHTSA that remains behind the curve in evaluating the myriad different technologies Uhhh... that was exactly what they were requesting to do with their letter.

Fricken 10y ago
The one fatality with Autopilot happened because the system worked too well, the driver came to trust it when he shouldn't have. The shittier the Comma one is, the more in-the-loop the human has to be, and risk compensation becomes less of a factor.
- emp_zealoth 10y ago
  What in the fucking hell are you talking about? A system that is seemingly half blind (repeatedly crashes into vehicles that only partially obstruct the lane), decapitates a guy, crashes another one into a fucking post It didn't work too well. It pretended to work too well and gotten people killed. There is a reason MobileEye walked away from Tesla They are being rather cavalier with their attitude to safety, apparently. (Apparently the falcon wing doors can go nom nom on you if you are not careful too - sure the guys are laughing their asses off, but it's not a good design) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdPPp3hoGQ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdPPp3hoGQ8 EDIT: OR, EVEN BETTER: http://jalopnik.com/did-tesla-quietly-remove-a-safety-feature-from-the-mode-1786000681 http://jalopnik.com/did-tesla-quietly-remove-a-safety-featur...
  - Fricken 10y ago
    One fatality in 200 million miles of driving reflects a cavalier attitude to safety? It's not like the guy who died in that accident wasn't familiar with autopilot's reccommended usage, he read the manual, Tesla made it pretty clear you still gotta watch the road while it's engaged. I mean, if you're into misusing cars, any of them will allow you to accelerate into a brick wall if that's your inclination. I'm not sure what Falcon wing doors has to do with any of this.
    - jayjay71 10y ago
      There is at least 1 other death in China where autopilot is cited as the cause, and there are many other accidents in China which are not widely reported in the United States (it's easy to find several on Google though, many of which are even posted on YouTube with video proof). Statistically speaking, Tesla's autopilot is more dangerous than regular driving. They spun bad statistics to claim otherwise. They ignored the difference between highway driving (which is safer) and all driving, and ignored demographics (most Tesla drivers are older and affluent). It is too early to really draw many conclusions about autopilot, because there is actually very little data. Comparing the number of miles driven by Tesla to the number of miles driven by all other cars in one year is a difference of several orders of magnitude. But they are under investigation, and as more time passes the more damning it seems for Tesla.

jimjimjim 10y ago

bonus points for mention of c64 LOAD "",8,1 or even more old-school LOAD "",1,1

noonespecial 10y ago
1,1 !? - Oh hell no. I'm not waiting around for your stupid tape. Get a floppy drive like the cool kids.

csixty4 10y ago

This thread makes me happy.

csixty4 10y ago
Wow. When I posted this, the only replies were about the Commodore line. Now there's an actual conversation going on!

bertil 10y ago

I would include an (unlikely) 3: Hotz really, really does not want to be in the same room as the Feds (he is a confessed hacker) or spend time dealing with them. Maybe more likely: he can sell a ton _now_ in China, had a partner car company, and expect that having those work there would make his success in US either negligible in comparison, or faster thanks the example.

agumonkey 10y ago

I have yet to see the simplest proof that comma ai work is just a cute trained NN over a camera, piped to basic controls, with some potential creative ideas (in a conf, hotz mentioned working on time based depth inference instead of the traditional stereo camera setup). I'm biased for conservative companies, I have no idea what they're doing and how much resources. Maybe they're doing something at the same level. I believe they have more refined physics model to compute surroundings and car physics in a way to ensure sane and safe behaviour. Exception made of Tesla AP, which I always found borderline lying. The medias and the crowd seeems to believe wild hacking and current year tech is giving you better products, but physics are physics. I'm still waiting for a proof of solid math, system and safety engineering there. psedit; I forgot, I peaked at commaai github repo, the NN code is way above my head and what I could imagine, so I have to give hotz' team that. Some people really have magic auras.

Pica_soO 10y ago
Actually all my money was on google, i expected them to drive into the scrapfield, after the car companys and Tesla pushed each other into a early market situation and upped Legislation, kicking themselves out of the market, with a carnaggedon. But they backed out, because their managers want the chicken to exist before the egg. So, why not bet on the outsider?
- agumonkey 10y ago
  I liked Google's approach a lot. It seemed justly dimensioned, came out of Thrun DARPA success, had years and millions of miles of testing. What's not to love. Also G has the lever to accelerate and change tech if their old approach is obsolete. Sad they went silent since a year or so. I said it in other place, including HN, I don't consider Hotz an outsider, but mostly glorified hacker (his attitude with institutions and media don't help me clear this impression); and I don't think hacker mentality bodes well with this task.
  - Pica_soO 10y ago
    Actually, that is a very humanistic point of view. There are third-world countrys where a margin of life-loss is considered "acceptable". And sorry, but Teslas approach, seems to be a similar hacky "Wing-it with PR-Guns blazing".

nkrisc 10y ago

I believe Arthur C. Clarke said something that's relevant here, "technology that's indistinguishable from magic is probably bullshit." No, that's not right...