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I'm a non-native/hobbyist Chinese learner, and I'm liking it so far. I wonder if this could end up suiting the purposes of people in my niche, even if it can't

by akavi 10y ago

I'm a non-native/hobbyist Chinese learner, and I'm liking it so far. I wonder if this could end up suiting the purposes of people in my niche, even if it can't supersede other methods among native speakers? Personally, I strongly dislike pinyin because using roman letters engages the intrusive "thinking in English" part of my brain - something I (and I think, a lot of other learners) try and avoid when engaging a new language. I've spent a decent amount of time trying wubi, and this seems to be easier. Wubi tries to limit itself to 26 keys, so you get a lot of non-intuitive grouping of seemingly unrelated strokes onto the same key (Or at least, going back to my first point, non-intuitive to non-native speakers. Can't speak to how the groupings are perceived by people who learn to read/write via the standard pedagogy.). Small things that would make this better for me: * The fact there's more radicals behind the shift key is really not obvious. You might want to add a note/tooltip pointing that out? * A "reverse lookup" going from character to key compositions. Right now I'm struggling to figure out how to type 钱 because I can't figure out how to write the 金 radical. * Is there just the one, canonical way of writing a character? Or can you "compose" them up from any "correct" series of strokes? If it's the latter, how hard would it be to make it the latter?

thaumasiotes 10y ago
> Personally, I strongly dislike pinyin because using roman letters engages the intrusive "thinking in English" part of my brain If this really bothers you, use zhuyin, or double pinyin. > Is there just the one, canonical way of writing a character? Or can you "compose" them up from any "correct" series of strokes? There is always one canonical way (the "stroke order") of writing a character. I find it a little surprising that a hobbyist learner wouldn't already know this? How are you studying? My introductory text for writing characters was https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Chinese-Characters-Ms-Zhang/dp/7561912943/ https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Chinese-Characters-Ms-Zhang/... , and it worked well enough that I can generally input unfamiliar characters in bihua. On your phone, pleco (which you should have if you're studying Chinese) has a $5 stroke order addon, and skritter (meh) is all about practicing stroke orders.
- akavi 10y ago
  > If this really bothers you, use zhuyin, or double pinyin. Double pinyin is still pinyin. Zhuyin works, but I suppose, on reflection, I also want the benefit of reinforcing my knowledge of how to write a character by hand. > There is always one canonical way (the "stroke order") of writing a character. I find it a little surprising that a hobbyist learner wouldn't already know this? How are you studying? I'm well aware; I was talking about in this input system. Ie, a given radical can be further decomposed into smaller radicals or individual strokes. If I input "stroke 1" + "stroke 2" instead of "radical comprising stroke 1 and stroke 2" is it meant to still work? (I discovered several situations where that wasn't the case, so another way of stating my question is: Is this intentional or a bug?).
  - thaumasiotes 10y ago
    > Double pinyin is still pinyin. Zhuyin works Double pinyin is zhuyin on a keyboard.
  - natch 10y ago
    >I also want the benefit of reinforcing my knowledge of how to write a character by hand. In that case you should just use handwriting recognition software such as that built into your smartphone.
donald123 10y ago
wubi and pinyin are for two different kinds of people. pinyin is for ones who read the character out in their mind as typing. And wubi is for people who visualize the character. For native speaker, speaking is natural, that's why pinyin is gaining more popularity among native speakers.
natch 10y ago
Pinyin is a good tool with lasting benefits. You'll get past the early stages faster with it than you will without it.

by akavi 10y ago

thaumasiotes 10y ago

> Personally, I strongly dislike pinyin because using roman letters engages the intrusive "thinking in English" part of my brain If this really bothers you, use zhuyin, or double pinyin. > Is there just the one, canonical way of writing a character? Or can you "compose" them up from any "correct" series of strokes? There is always one canonical way (the "stroke order") of writing a character. I find it a little surprising that a hobbyist learner wouldn't already know this? How are you studying? My introductory text for writing characters was https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Chinese-Characters-Ms-Zhang/dp/7561912943/ https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Chinese-Characters-Ms-Zhang/... , and it worked well enough that I can generally input unfamiliar characters in bihua. On your phone, pleco (which you should have if you're studying Chinese) has a $5 stroke order addon, and skritter (meh) is all about practicing stroke orders.

akavi 10y ago
> If this really bothers you, use zhuyin, or double pinyin. Double pinyin is still pinyin. Zhuyin works, but I suppose, on reflection, I also want the benefit of reinforcing my knowledge of how to write a character by hand. > There is always one canonical way (the "stroke order") of writing a character. I find it a little surprising that a hobbyist learner wouldn't already know this? How are you studying? I'm well aware; I was talking about in this input system. Ie, a given radical can be further decomposed into smaller radicals or individual strokes. If I input "stroke 1" + "stroke 2" instead of "radical comprising stroke 1 and stroke 2" is it meant to still work? (I discovered several situations where that wasn't the case, so another way of stating my question is: Is this intentional or a bug?).
- thaumasiotes 10y ago
  > Double pinyin is still pinyin. Zhuyin works Double pinyin is zhuyin on a keyboard.
- natch 10y ago
  >I also want the benefit of reinforcing my knowledge of how to write a character by hand. In that case you should just use handwriting recognition software such as that built into your smartphone.

donald123 10y ago

wubi and pinyin are for two different kinds of people. pinyin is for ones who read the character out in their mind as typing. And wubi is for people who visualize the character. For native speaker, speaking is natural, that's why pinyin is gaining more popularity among native speakers.

natch 10y ago

Pinyin is a good tool with lasting benefits. You'll get past the early stages faster with it than you will without it.