4 ms·

(preamble: I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.) Here (in the UK) it's often in boilerplate employment contracts that any projects worked at any time

(preamble: I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.) Here (in the UK) it's often in boilerplate employment contracts that any projects worked at any time during employment[0] belong to the company. I tend to go through and cross it out when I find it but I'm also fairly sure it's one of those "it's in there but it's not legally enforceable" things that are often found in employment contracts so I don't know how well tested it is in the courts and also I don't think a company would damage their reputation enforcing it unless someone was working on a project directly relating to or competing with a product the company made. It's understandable that an employer wouldn't want someone developing an open source competitor to their own products. The 'social contract' is that the employer should invest in their human capital so that in return the employee gains valuable experience and learning by providing training courses, conferences and the like. How much that happens of course varies greatly in the wild. [0] During as in the duration of your life where you're employed, not "working hours".

kobeya 10y ago
It's not understandable that a company should have the right to limit what an employee does after-hours on his own hardware with his own IP.
- throwawayReply 10y ago
  If you spend your nights rebuilding your company's software as an open source offering, you don't think that would contravene ethics and your obligations to your employer? Some might argue, "But existing IP and trade secrets protection already covers this". In cases such as this it would be difficult and expensive to pursue a criminal case around IP and trade secrets, so it's cheaper and easier to have a contract clause which approximately restates the same thing but as part of the contract, with some stronger statements to provide added protection. There are plenty of clauses in contracts which might seem odd because they're effectively restating parts of criminal law in the contract, but moving things from criminal law to civil law moves the burden of proof from "Beyond reasonable doubt" to "On the balance of probabilities". Employment contracts are for the benefit of both parties, but ultimately it is the employers who draft them and they will try to get away with as much as possible.
  - kobeya 10y ago
    No, it would only be a violation if you reused IP (which I don't see how you could avoid in your setup). I am not a slave to my employer, and my employer does not own me. I consider this an issue of fundamental human rights. If you do not pay for the work that I do, you cannot be entitled to it.

kobeya 10y ago

It's not understandable that a company should have the right to limit what an employee does after-hours on his own hardware with his own IP.

throwawayReply 10y ago
If you spend your nights rebuilding your company's software as an open source offering, you don't think that would contravene ethics and your obligations to your employer? Some might argue, "But existing IP and trade secrets protection already covers this". In cases such as this it would be difficult and expensive to pursue a criminal case around IP and trade secrets, so it's cheaper and easier to have a contract clause which approximately restates the same thing but as part of the contract, with some stronger statements to provide added protection. There are plenty of clauses in contracts which might seem odd because they're effectively restating parts of criminal law in the contract, but moving things from criminal law to civil law moves the burden of proof from "Beyond reasonable doubt" to "On the balance of probabilities". Employment contracts are for the benefit of both parties, but ultimately it is the employers who draft them and they will try to get away with as much as possible.
- kobeya 10y ago
  No, it would only be a violation if you reused IP (which I don't see how you could avoid in your setup). I am not a slave to my employer, and my employer does not own me. I consider this an issue of fundamental human rights. If you do not pay for the work that I do, you cannot be entitled to it.