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This will be an unpopular opinion, but I think it's too early to push full BEV cars. I think the perfect car now is the plugin hybrid and this is what the indu

This will be an unpopular opinion, but I think it's too early to push full BEV cars. I think the perfect car now is the plugin hybrid and this is what the industry should be pushing across all types (SUV/CUV, small car, mid-size, etc.) Reasons are: * Supercharger can charge at 1.2kWh per minute. (90kWh/75minutes). That means a 10kWh battery can be charged in about 8 minutes which is comparable to a typical gas station time. * Many plugin hybrids have about a 10kWh battery that gets about 25-30 mile EV range. * The battery in one Tesla (90 kWh) could be used to build 9 plugin hybrid cars. Since the battery is so much smaller, the additional car price is also much less. * Big improvement for the environment. The US likes SUVs. And many car trips are short distance (getting groceries, going to school, etc.) If these can be covered by the battery, then the impact of the low-mpg SUV is much reduced. * Ironically, it would allow a business opportunity for gas stations. Imagine a EV quick charge cable right next to the gas pump. Fill the up the gas tank and quick charge the 10kWh battery at the same time. * It would be a good fit for those without garages (such as apartments). The EV part of the car is simply a nice to have. The charging is quick enough to do it at those charging stations at supermarkets, workplaces, etc. But it's ok if they can't find any empty EV parking spots, the gas engine will get them home.

sheer_horror 10y ago
Don't bother with hybrids if all of the shortcomings are covered with gasoline. A good EV or a good gasoline car are both better than a hybrid, so what is the point? Who wants to buy a car that is heavier and slower than their full gas and full electric counterparts? It's always too late to push for something that is just a bad product.
- Kadin 10y ago
  > A good EV or a good gasoline car are both better than a hybrid, so what is the point? I don't think this is true. A plug-in hybrid will always have an advantage over a gasoline car, in that it can do short trips without starting the gas engine at all. So for repeated short trips, it acts like a BEV. But unlike a BEV, there's no range limitation or worrying about where to find a charging station. I've thought fairly hard about a pure BEV and I can't see myself getting one except as an additional vehicle. But I could see getting a plug-in hybrid like the Volt in the near future. Anecdotally, all the people I know who are seriously considering BEVs are buying them as second or third cars. There's certainly a market, but I think it's going to saturate pretty quickly, because a lot of people don't want to have one vehicle for known-distance commuting and then another vehicle for unknown-distance or long trips. While these trips may represent a small percentage of driving in terms of actual mileage, they're enough to shape the choice of cars. (E.g. someone may not drive to grandma's house out in the sticks more than a few times a year, but if the car can't handle that drive, it's not going to get purchased, period.)
  - mikeash 10y ago
    Lots of Tesla owners have it as their only car. (Or they own multiple cars, but all EVs.) I'm one of them. Of course, Tesla is the only one out there that can really handle those long trips. The Bolt can't unless all the stars line up. I really don't understand why other manufacturers aren't pushing hard on fast charging networks. As you say, those long trips may not be common, but people won't buy the car if it can't make them.
- bit_logic 10y ago
  If the goal is environmental (reduce the impact of burning gasoline), then currently a full BEV is inferior to plugin hybrid. The success criteria should not be number of BEV on the road. Rather, it should be total electric miles driven. For that goal, what is more likely to succeed in the market? A really expensive full BEV? Or a SUV, pickup truck, etc. that is only a little bit more expensive than gas version and has a 25 mile EV range?
cpursley 10y ago
My gripe with hybrids are they are mechanically complex. More than a standard gas engine or a full electric powertrain. Worst of both worlds.
- bit_logic 10y ago
  Look at the maintenance and reliability for Prius. The data shows this is clearly not true.
  - pilom 10y ago
    Totally agree, the transmission for the Prius is astounding. It is truly amazing that they replaced everything about past transmissions with a single planetary gear system and it works beautifully.
- BBTN6 10y ago
  Who cares about complexity if they're reliable? Toyota and Ford hybrids have been successfully used by cab companies for quite some time now. The old Honda IMA setup was troublesome, but their new setup is great. It's not like standard gas power trains are simple anymore either--turbocharging, direct injection, and dual clutch transmissions are common, even in affordable cars.
fma 10y ago
GM agrees with you. Which is why they came out with the Chevy Volt years ago.
- Tempest1981 10y ago
  And BMW recently, with the i3 EV w/ REX range extender (ICE w/ 2 gallon gas tank)

sheer_horror 10y ago

Don't bother with hybrids if all of the shortcomings are covered with gasoline. A good EV or a good gasoline car are both better than a hybrid, so what is the point? Who wants to buy a car that is heavier and slower than their full gas and full electric counterparts? It's always too late to push for something that is just a bad product.

Kadin 10y ago
> A good EV or a good gasoline car are both better than a hybrid, so what is the point? I don't think this is true. A plug-in hybrid will always have an advantage over a gasoline car, in that it can do short trips without starting the gas engine at all. So for repeated short trips, it acts like a BEV. But unlike a BEV, there's no range limitation or worrying about where to find a charging station. I've thought fairly hard about a pure BEV and I can't see myself getting one except as an additional vehicle. But I could see getting a plug-in hybrid like the Volt in the near future. Anecdotally, all the people I know who are seriously considering BEVs are buying them as second or third cars. There's certainly a market, but I think it's going to saturate pretty quickly, because a lot of people don't want to have one vehicle for known-distance commuting and then another vehicle for unknown-distance or long trips. While these trips may represent a small percentage of driving in terms of actual mileage, they're enough to shape the choice of cars. (E.g. someone may not drive to grandma's house out in the sticks more than a few times a year, but if the car can't handle that drive, it's not going to get purchased, period.)
- mikeash 10y ago
  Lots of Tesla owners have it as their only car. (Or they own multiple cars, but all EVs.) I'm one of them. Of course, Tesla is the only one out there that can really handle those long trips. The Bolt can't unless all the stars line up. I really don't understand why other manufacturers aren't pushing hard on fast charging networks. As you say, those long trips may not be common, but people won't buy the car if it can't make them.
bit_logic 10y ago
If the goal is environmental (reduce the impact of burning gasoline), then currently a full BEV is inferior to plugin hybrid. The success criteria should not be number of BEV on the road. Rather, it should be total electric miles driven. For that goal, what is more likely to succeed in the market? A really expensive full BEV? Or a SUV, pickup truck, etc. that is only a little bit more expensive than gas version and has a 25 mile EV range?

cpursley 10y ago

My gripe with hybrids are they are mechanically complex. More than a standard gas engine or a full electric powertrain. Worst of both worlds.

bit_logic 10y ago
Look at the maintenance and reliability for Prius. The data shows this is clearly not true.
- pilom 10y ago
  Totally agree, the transmission for the Prius is astounding. It is truly amazing that they replaced everything about past transmissions with a single planetary gear system and it works beautifully.
BBTN6 10y ago
Who cares about complexity if they're reliable? Toyota and Ford hybrids have been successfully used by cab companies for quite some time now. The old Honda IMA setup was troublesome, but their new setup is great. It's not like standard gas power trains are simple anymore either--turbocharging, direct injection, and dual clutch transmissions are common, even in affordable cars.

fma 10y ago

GM agrees with you. Which is why they came out with the Chevy Volt years ago.

Tempest1981 10y ago
And BMW recently, with the i3 EV w/ REX range extender (ICE w/ 2 gallon gas tank)