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My business runs on Toyotas. Hundreds of them. Not one single breakdown in an entire year.

radiorental 10y ago
You may have misread the original comment. Breakdowns and maintenance schedules are not the same thing. Breaks, fluids etc.
- mywittyname 10y ago
  EVs still need lots of the expensive maintenance associated with gas cars (like tires, brake systems). If you compare maintenance costs on KBB between cars and their EV counterparts, you'll see that EVs have about 10% maintenance cost discounts over their gasoline counterparts. It helps that maintenance on gas cars has been reduced dramatically due to advances in chemistry and material science, allowing for very long maintenance intervals and "lifetime" fluids in transmissions, cooling systems, and differentials.
  - radiorental 10y ago
    I'd take that 10% number with a large mouthful of salt as it's a basic projection at this point in time. Of the few who have pushed their teslas to 200k they've documented very low costs as compared to ice. More moving parts simply means more failure costs over time. But at this point in time, we do not have hard data to compare ice with ev. Also, simply incorrect on breaks. Regenerative breaks means rotors and pads have a much much longer service interval.
    - mywittyname 10y ago
      These EVs have been around long enough that this information is based on hard data. At least 5-6 years for most models (the Leaf is from 2010). A Prius has regen-braking too, so you can get 100k on a set of pads. You still need to flush the fluid though because it is extremely hygroscopic and begins to break-down and lose effectiveness with age, so it isn't something you want leave for the decade it takes the pads to wear, lest you find the brake pedal on the floor when you need it the most. But tires are the biggest maintenance expense of a car. And EV's weight + torque can make them eat tires. Edmunds didn't even get 10k miles out of the $1600 tires on their Model S. You may not realize, but EVs should use special tires. Michelin makes EV-specific variants of their lineups that are designed to handle the heat and load requirements of an EV. https://www.wired.com/2016/05/hidden-battle-make-perfect-tires-electric-car-divas/ https://www.wired.com/2016/05/hidden-battle-make-perfect-tir... So, until EVs ditch their tires, maintenance for them is still going to be pretty close to their gas counterparts.
      - deelowe 10y ago
        You two are over here arguing cost when I was talking about how much less of a hassle owning a EV is due to the reduced impact to my schedule. I think there are more people like me out there in the world than there are the financial independence types that scrutinize over marginal TCO discussions. And, those people aren't buying new cars anyways.
    - ams6110 10y ago
      The "moving parts" FUD in regards to ICE is largely unwarranted in a reasonably modern (i.e. made in this century) car. Use good synthetic oil and you'll likely never have a problem with moving parts in the engine. Likewise transmission. If the engine has a timing belt, preventative maintenance on that every 100K miles or so. Compare to battery pack replacement. ICE engines probably do need fluid changes more than EVs. However that's not a huge expense all things considered. If you give them at least moderate care, ICE engines are very reliable.
      - radiorental 10y ago
        I appreciate how well built modern cars are... having swapped in a modern ford engine into my 30 year old camper http://www.pauric.net/blog/?p=418 http://www.pauric.net/blog/?p=418 I maintain all the vehicles in our household. From the coil packs that regularly fail on the mazda. The water pumps that fail periodically on both the mazda and honda to the lead acid batteries that die every 3-4 years due to the cold winters. More moving parts simply means more things will wear out more quickly. Regardless of which brand of synthetic oil I pour into the engine. For someone like me, I'll stick with ice for now because the cost and time to do this work has a great ROI compared to the premium for EV.
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- fillskills 10y ago
  I did assume that. I was also adding another data point to the discussion. Running this business made me realize thats some cars rarely break down. Numbers are ridiculously low on some models and that is one the major reasons our business is sustainable
  - radiorental 10y ago
    Completely agree. I'm personally having a hard time switching from Ice because (a) I do all my own maintenance. And (b) even cars such as Fords can do 200k with little to no significant failures.
    - deelowe 10y ago
      I used to do all my own maintenance as well. I guess I'll eventually have to do maintenance on the EV, but so far it's just been tire rotations (free), wiper fluid, and tire pressure.

You may have misread the original comment. Breakdowns and maintenance schedules are not the same thing. Breaks, fluids etc.

mywittyname 10y ago
EVs still need lots of the expensive maintenance associated with gas cars (like tires, brake systems). If you compare maintenance costs on KBB between cars and their EV counterparts, you'll see that EVs have about 10% maintenance cost discounts over their gasoline counterparts. It helps that maintenance on gas cars has been reduced dramatically due to advances in chemistry and material science, allowing for very long maintenance intervals and "lifetime" fluids in transmissions, cooling systems, and differentials.
- radiorental 10y ago
  I'd take that 10% number with a large mouthful of salt as it's a basic projection at this point in time. Of the few who have pushed their teslas to 200k they've documented very low costs as compared to ice. More moving parts simply means more failure costs over time. But at this point in time, we do not have hard data to compare ice with ev. Also, simply incorrect on breaks. Regenerative breaks means rotors and pads have a much much longer service interval.
  - mywittyname 10y ago
    These EVs have been around long enough that this information is based on hard data. At least 5-6 years for most models (the Leaf is from 2010). A Prius has regen-braking too, so you can get 100k on a set of pads. You still need to flush the fluid though because it is extremely hygroscopic and begins to break-down and lose effectiveness with age, so it isn't something you want leave for the decade it takes the pads to wear, lest you find the brake pedal on the floor when you need it the most. But tires are the biggest maintenance expense of a car. And EV's weight + torque can make them eat tires. Edmunds didn't even get 10k miles out of the $1600 tires on their Model S. You may not realize, but EVs should use special tires. Michelin makes EV-specific variants of their lineups that are designed to handle the heat and load requirements of an EV. https://www.wired.com/2016/05/hidden-battle-make-perfect-tires-electric-car-divas/ https://www.wired.com/2016/05/hidden-battle-make-perfect-tir... So, until EVs ditch their tires, maintenance for them is still going to be pretty close to their gas counterparts.
    - deelowe 10y ago
      You two are over here arguing cost when I was talking about how much less of a hassle owning a EV is due to the reduced impact to my schedule. I think there are more people like me out there in the world than there are the financial independence types that scrutinize over marginal TCO discussions. And, those people aren't buying new cars anyways.
  - ams6110 10y ago
    The "moving parts" FUD in regards to ICE is largely unwarranted in a reasonably modern (i.e. made in this century) car. Use good synthetic oil and you'll likely never have a problem with moving parts in the engine. Likewise transmission. If the engine has a timing belt, preventative maintenance on that every 100K miles or so. Compare to battery pack replacement. ICE engines probably do need fluid changes more than EVs. However that's not a huge expense all things considered. If you give them at least moderate care, ICE engines are very reliable.
    - radiorental 10y ago
      I appreciate how well built modern cars are... having swapped in a modern ford engine into my 30 year old camper http://www.pauric.net/blog/?p=418 http://www.pauric.net/blog/?p=418 I maintain all the vehicles in our household. From the coil packs that regularly fail on the mazda. The water pumps that fail periodically on both the mazda and honda to the lead acid batteries that die every 3-4 years due to the cold winters. More moving parts simply means more things will wear out more quickly. Regardless of which brand of synthetic oil I pour into the engine. For someone like me, I'll stick with ice for now because the cost and time to do this work has a great ROI compared to the premium for EV.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 10y ago
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fillskills 10y ago
I did assume that. I was also adding another data point to the discussion. Running this business made me realize thats some cars rarely break down. Numbers are ridiculously low on some models and that is one the major reasons our business is sustainable
- radiorental 10y ago
  Completely agree. I'm personally having a hard time switching from Ice because (a) I do all my own maintenance. And (b) even cars such as Fords can do 200k with little to no significant failures.
  - deelowe 10y ago
    I used to do all my own maintenance as well. I guess I'll eventually have to do maintenance on the EV, but so far it's just been tire rotations (free), wiper fluid, and tire pressure.