3 ms·

I don't know how this is an issue for Apple. If those treadmills were micro USB, they'd be trending rapidly toward obsolescence anyway. I'll note that almost e

by dpark 10y ago

I don't know how this is an issue for Apple. If those treadmills were micro USB, they'd be trending rapidly toward obsolescence anyway. I'll note that almost everyone who complains about lightning seems to not be an Apple user. Apple users seem fine with the horror of not sharing cables with Android devices. Apple users are also pretty happy that random hotels and whatnot have docks for their phones.

ng12 10y ago
> I don't know how this is an issue for Apple Oh, it's absolutely not. Apple makes a killing selling adapters. It's the users who get screwed.
- dpark 10y ago
  I don't know. I bought a lightning cable for my office a week ago for maybe $6. A quick search on Amazon shows an equivalent USB-C cable is actually more if I want to buy from a company with a name I recognize.
  - ng12 10y ago
    What are you talking about? Direct from Apple it's $20, on Amazon both will run you $5-$10. But that's not the point anyways -- I'm still using a micro-usb cable that I bought before Lightning was even released. I've had to spend $0 on proprietary nonsense. Also, another point: I have a medical device and a Kindle which both charge via micro-USB, meaning I only had to bring one charger when I traveled. Huge benefit.
    - dpark 10y ago
      So don't buy direct from Apple. An AmazonBasics lightning cable is 6.50 right now. The cheapest brand I recognize for USB-C is Anker at 7. So no, USB-C is not meaningfully more expensive but neither are iPhone users getting ripped off unless they choose to. Apple customers aren't getting "screwed" as you claimed. If you're still using micro USB, I hate to break the news, but you will absolutely be buying some new cables in the future.
      - ng12 10y ago
        Right, and I'm unhappy about it whether I can get a good deal on Amazon or not. You asked why people liked USB so much, that is why.
        dpark 10y ago
        This chunk of the thread was addressing your comment about how "Apple makes a killing selling adapters. It's the users who get screwed." You being unhappy about Apple using a proprietary connection doesn't mean the cables or adapters are actually pricy.
        ng12 10y ago
        I inherently have to carry around more cables/adapters/dongles, which cost money. That's why I'm unhappy. I'm paying more for less -- how is that not getting screwed?
        dpark 10y ago
        Inherently? No. This depends entirely on what other devices you have. Carrying an iPad? Same connector. Carrying a laptop? Sure, that's a different connector, but that's currently the case for virtually every laptop no matter what kind of phone you're carrying. In your case, you're carrying two other devices that use Micro-USB, which is great for you. Unfortunately you're likely to be facing a choice of replacing all of your devices or carrying two cables regardless the next time you upgrade your phone.
      - unprepare 10y ago
        one charger for many devices beats one charger per device. period. Apple obviously knows this, as they just moved their macbook to USB-C. now i can charge my android phone with the same cable as my macbook, android is more compatible with the new macbook than the iphone is; thats an embarrassment
        dpark 10y ago
    - ricksplat 10y ago
      Lightening sucks balls
      - sctb 10y ago
        Please don't comment like this here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - stouset 10y ago
      In two years, you're going to be swapping out your micro-USB cables while I'm using a lightning cable I bought before USB-C was even released. What's your point?
- stouset 10y ago
  Apple makes hundreds of billions from iPhone sales. They make probably tens of millions from cables. Suggesting they'd knowingly sabotage #1 for #2 is absurd.
  - ng12 10y ago
    They're making a bet that the sales lost from customers who are willing to switch to Android is less than the profit made from proprietary hardware, and they're probably right.
    - stouset 10y ago
      I think you're going to need a lot more evidence to essentially make the claim that bean-counters have taken over Apple. Clearly many of these decisions have been popular. I'd even wager that this an unprofitable decision for them, in the short term. This might sound counter to my original assertion that they're sabotaging billions of iPhone revenues for millions of accessory revenues, but it isn't. There's a third thing they're optimizing for, and I think they're willing to sacrifice both of those revenues for it. USB-C is the "right" thing forward. Bluetooth is the "right" thing forward. They're trying to push the industry towards these things (whether or not it's a good idea is something you can agree or disagree with), and they're willing to sacrifice earnings if they believe make that future come sooner. Happened with floppy drives, happened with CD drives, and it's happening now with USB-C and the removal of the audio jack. For better or worse, the bean-counters have never been in charge at Apple, and that's been one of their greatest long-term strengths.
FireBeyond 10y ago
"If those treadmills were micro USB, they'd be trending rapidly toward obsolescence anyway." Where "trending towards obsolescence" means "has realistically at least three years of non-negligible use for Micro USB", versus "was replaced by its manufacturer just over four years ago" (September 2012). I'm yet to see gym equipment (a niche example) with Lightning, it's only 30 pin connectors.
- stouset 10y ago
  Oh, FFS. 30-pin was around for what, 15-odd years? You're blaming them for literally nothing more than "the plug changing" because it just happened to be within the past few years. If they'd gone with micro-USB, you would have the exact same complaint two or three years from now. That micro-USB devices still have 2 or 3 more years left of ubiquity is just a function of this exact moment in time, and you could have said that three years ago for 30-pin too.
  - SysArchitect 10y ago
    30 pin was introduced in 2003, it was finally replaced with Lightning in 2014 and thereby deprecated from use. That's a 11 year run. I bet those treadmills are not even that old yet.
    - dpark 10y ago
      Well, Micro-USB was announced in 2007. So by the time USB-C really takes over, it will have had maybe a 10-year run. So that's no better for compatibility life.
      - SysArchitect 10y ago
        I completely agree with you. Micro-USB has already shown that it is not the best standard moving forward, it is already at it's end as manufacturers are replacing the port on devices with a USB-C port instead. So let's call it. Micro-USB, 2007 -> 2016 (9 years). It had less of a run than the 30 pin dock connector! --- I still have USB-B, USB-Mini and USB-Micro, and USB3-Micro-B devices... some were built even after USB-Micro was available, yet they still use USB Mini (which in most cases is a lot more sturdy than Micro). I have a ton of different cables for different devices because there was no real standardization until USB-C very very recently. Why was the same vocal crowd not out when manufacturers switched from Mini to Micro and everyone had to buy all new cables? With USB3 there is also a USB3-TypeB connector, which is not even backwards compatible with USB-TypeB... http://www.datapro.net/techinfo/usb_3_explained.html http://www.datapro.net/techinfo/usb_3_explained.html

by dpark 10y ago

ng12 10y ago

> I don't know how this is an issue for Apple Oh, it's absolutely not. Apple makes a killing selling adapters. It's the users who get screwed.

dpark 10y ago
I don't know. I bought a lightning cable for my office a week ago for maybe $6. A quick search on Amazon shows an equivalent USB-C cable is actually more if I want to buy from a company with a name I recognize.
- ng12 10y ago
  What are you talking about? Direct from Apple it's $20, on Amazon both will run you $5-$10. But that's not the point anyways -- I'm still using a micro-usb cable that I bought before Lightning was even released. I've had to spend $0 on proprietary nonsense. Also, another point: I have a medical device and a Kindle which both charge via micro-USB, meaning I only had to bring one charger when I traveled. Huge benefit.
  - dpark 10y ago
    So don't buy direct from Apple. An AmazonBasics lightning cable is 6.50 right now. The cheapest brand I recognize for USB-C is Anker at 7. So no, USB-C is not meaningfully more expensive but neither are iPhone users getting ripped off unless they choose to. Apple customers aren't getting "screwed" as you claimed. If you're still using micro USB, I hate to break the news, but you will absolutely be buying some new cables in the future.
    - ng12 10y ago
      Right, and I'm unhappy about it whether I can get a good deal on Amazon or not. You asked why people liked USB so much, that is why.
      - dpark 10y ago
        This chunk of the thread was addressing your comment about how "Apple makes a killing selling adapters. It's the users who get screwed." You being unhappy about Apple using a proprietary connection doesn't mean the cables or adapters are actually pricy.
        ng12 10y ago
        I inherently have to carry around more cables/adapters/dongles, which cost money. That's why I'm unhappy. I'm paying more for less -- how is that not getting screwed?
        dpark 10y ago
        Inherently? No. This depends entirely on what other devices you have. Carrying an iPad? Same connector. Carrying a laptop? Sure, that's a different connector, but that's currently the case for virtually every laptop no matter what kind of phone you're carrying. In your case, you're carrying two other devices that use Micro-USB, which is great for you. Unfortunately you're likely to be facing a choice of replacing all of your devices or carrying two cables regardless the next time you upgrade your phone.
    - unprepare 10y ago
      one charger for many devices beats one charger per device. period. Apple obviously knows this, as they just moved their macbook to USB-C. now i can charge my android phone with the same cable as my macbook, android is more compatible with the new macbook than the iphone is; thats an embarrassment
      - dpark 10y ago
  - ricksplat 10y ago
    Lightening sucks balls
    - sctb 10y ago
      Please don't comment like this here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - stouset 10y ago
    In two years, you're going to be swapping out your micro-USB cables while I'm using a lightning cable I bought before USB-C was even released. What's your point?
stouset 10y ago
Apple makes hundreds of billions from iPhone sales. They make probably tens of millions from cables. Suggesting they'd knowingly sabotage #1 for #2 is absurd.
- ng12 10y ago
  They're making a bet that the sales lost from customers who are willing to switch to Android is less than the profit made from proprietary hardware, and they're probably right.
  - stouset 10y ago
    I think you're going to need a lot more evidence to essentially make the claim that bean-counters have taken over Apple. Clearly many of these decisions have been popular. I'd even wager that this an unprofitable decision for them, in the short term. This might sound counter to my original assertion that they're sabotaging billions of iPhone revenues for millions of accessory revenues, but it isn't. There's a third thing they're optimizing for, and I think they're willing to sacrifice both of those revenues for it. USB-C is the "right" thing forward. Bluetooth is the "right" thing forward. They're trying to push the industry towards these things (whether or not it's a good idea is something you can agree or disagree with), and they're willing to sacrifice earnings if they believe make that future come sooner. Happened with floppy drives, happened with CD drives, and it's happening now with USB-C and the removal of the audio jack. For better or worse, the bean-counters have never been in charge at Apple, and that's been one of their greatest long-term strengths.

FireBeyond 10y ago

"If those treadmills were micro USB, they'd be trending rapidly toward obsolescence anyway." Where "trending towards obsolescence" means "has realistically at least three years of non-negligible use for Micro USB", versus "was replaced by its manufacturer just over four years ago" (September 2012). I'm yet to see gym equipment (a niche example) with Lightning, it's only 30 pin connectors.

stouset 10y ago
Oh, FFS. 30-pin was around for what, 15-odd years? You're blaming them for literally nothing more than "the plug changing" because it just happened to be within the past few years. If they'd gone with micro-USB, you would have the exact same complaint two or three years from now. That micro-USB devices still have 2 or 3 more years left of ubiquity is just a function of this exact moment in time, and you could have said that three years ago for 30-pin too.
- SysArchitect 10y ago
  30 pin was introduced in 2003, it was finally replaced with Lightning in 2014 and thereby deprecated from use. That's a 11 year run. I bet those treadmills are not even that old yet.
  - dpark 10y ago
    Well, Micro-USB was announced in 2007. So by the time USB-C really takes over, it will have had maybe a 10-year run. So that's no better for compatibility life.
    - SysArchitect 10y ago
      I completely agree with you. Micro-USB has already shown that it is not the best standard moving forward, it is already at it's end as manufacturers are replacing the port on devices with a USB-C port instead. So let's call it. Micro-USB, 2007 -> 2016 (9 years). It had less of a run than the 30 pin dock connector! --- I still have USB-B, USB-Mini and USB-Micro, and USB3-Micro-B devices... some were built even after USB-Micro was available, yet they still use USB Mini (which in most cases is a lot more sturdy than Micro). I have a ton of different cables for different devices because there was no real standardization until USB-C very very recently. Why was the same vocal crowd not out when manufacturers switched from Mini to Micro and everyone had to buy all new cables? With USB3 there is also a USB3-TypeB connector, which is not even backwards compatible with USB-TypeB... http://www.datapro.net/techinfo/usb_3_explained.html http://www.datapro.net/techinfo/usb_3_explained.html