6 ms·

Japan’s Disposable Workers: Dumping Ground [video]

72 points by creamyhorror 10y ago

l3m0ndr0p 10y ago
It's in Japanese.
serg_chernata 10y ago
I feel like we will only see more of this all over the world. As production, warehousing and distribution become increasingly automated a significant portion of human population will not be able to find work. To solve this, we will need to rethink compensation and the idea of working for a living.
- bruxis 10y ago
  I agree. It's interesting to see some countries start experimenting with a base income for all residents, though I think if this becomes widespread we'll simply see the base cost of living increase to that number. I hope we can put more energy into coming up with a valid long-term solution.
  - Asooka 10y ago
    I think UBI is supposed to track base cost of living, i.e. it shouldn't cause an increase on that. Even if it has a bit of surplus, market economics should guarantee the existence of cheap options, unless cartels form. Which is a problem we should be solving regardless.
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    I guess it will depend. Unless you are stuck in a "latte" habit, a basic income, at least if it is paid out of national coffers rather than local ones, will enable you to up and move where living is cheaper. That is perhaps the hardest part of current day public support structures, that they lock you into staying put.
    - Annatar 10y ago
      If enough people move to where it's cheaper, it causes a housing shortage, and then the price of housing rises, following increased demand. There are finite number of places where housing is cheaper. At the same time, we multiply and multiply.
    - mjevans 10y ago
      The environmental impact and loss of network effect efficiency (for society) would be dramatic. This is why I believe that we need to find the political will to make the cities more affordable (and also nicer) to live in than the outlying areas.
- nickff 10y ago
  We have had similar dislocations in the past; while they were painful transitions, people took on different jobs. Up until the late 1800s, the vast majority of Americans were farmers, who were dislocated as farm productivity rose; some of them suffered, but almost all of their children found new and more prosperous careers. There is no reason to believe this time is different.
  - eropple 10y ago
    There most certainly is reason to believe that this time is different: because automation is owned capital that replaces labor entirely and modern automation is able to scale in ways that industrialization could never dream of. This doesn't create new jobs at scale--only so many people can be robot repairpeople. It's not "new job" territory. It's "no job" territory. And it's the recipe for a permanent underclass unless we actually use our heads for more than hat racks and re-think how a modern economy is supposed to work.
    - nickff 10y ago
      I could make the same argument about farm equipment eliminating farmers' jobs, and not leaving as many jobs for farm equipment repair. The problem is that we cannot imagine what ideas for productive work others might come up with in the future.
      - lgieron 10y ago
        > I could make the same argument about farm equipment eliminating farmers' jobs, and not leaving as many jobs for farm equipment repair. This. 300 years ago, 90+% of population was working in agriculture - now it's around 2% in developed countries. And yet, there was no armageddon - we managed to develop all these new needs that keep people employed. People saying that "this time it will be different" ignore the almost unlimited growth potential of some industries, such as for example teaching (we could go back to the standard of one teacher per one pupil that rich people had back in the day), psychological counsel (potentially everybody could benefit from a shrink/coach), or human-based health care (more nurses -> better standard of care).
- tn13 10y ago
  Luddite! I think widespread automation will dramatically increase human productivity and lower prices and bring amazing new products that will help all of live a better life including for those poor people. Without the level of automation we have today do you think poor people could afford television or car or even a can of soda? Think of many more amazing things that would be easily accessible for poor people across the world because the new wave of automation. Human beings pushed out from less productive works is a good thing for humanity in general. If some kid today grows up think she would do a job of a factory shop worker I think it is a bit waste of human talent. She can be lot more. Getting rid of minimum wage laws might be the best way to help those who are being pushed out of the employment due to automation.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
martin_henk 10y ago
In Japan also highly educated people have problems finding jobs. Asia cares in general less about it's citizens than Europe I guess. System is massively skewed with little social upward mobility.
rXoX 10y ago
The most interesting part of this is how indifferent people are to it. I live in Canada. We've had Food Banks for 35 years. When they started, there were a few "Oh that's too bad" editorials, then averybody just 'normalized' it. We started to see a homelessness problem back in the 90's, until it too became "normal", so that the citizenry simply assumed 'those people' had it coming to 'em. Now we've got a serious problem because middle-aged professionals can't afford housing and the accompanying news articles assigning blame to municipal governments, provinces and the federal government are everywhere you look - a classic case of hot-potato politics. But no one blames an electorate that did nothing, voted no differently, acted indifferently or simply sat around and let it happen because all the bad things were happening to people who, you know, 'probably brought it on themselves'. And that's the problem. In the developed world, it's become habit forming for the electorate to watch as people at the edges of society and those on lower socio-economic rungs crumble away into 'irrelevance'. Or, as some would call them - the 'deplorable' class. I suspect it will take a another 2 decades before it become crystal clear that the winners are being winnowed down and the losers are looming larger and larger. We're seeing the first edge now, but it's only going to get bigger. And angrier.
ChrisArchitect 10y ago
(2014)
Paul_S 10y ago
That's just the trailer. Actual documentaries are somewhere else: http://mediastorm.com/clients/japans-disposable-workers-overworked-to-suicide-for-pulitzer-center http://mediastorm.com/clients/japans-disposable-workers-over... http://mediastorm.com/clients/japans-disposable-workers-net-cafe-refugees-for-pulitzer-center http://mediastorm.com/clients/japans-disposable-workers-net-... "Fucking hell" describes my reaction accurately. When I was a kid and wanted a job in video games I was considering both the UK and Japan. Quite happy with my choice (of country, not career - that sucked). Every article about work in Japan I read baffles me because it all strikes me as insanely inefficient, yet they're one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Then again so is Qatar.
welanes 10y ago
Some auxiliary watching for those who want a peek inside the life of a Japanese temporary employee is 'Japan A Story of Love and Hate' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH-kNnq7mFM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH-kNnq7mFM). It's a documentary on hopelessness, captured beautifully. Well worth an hour of your time.
koder2016 10y ago
The real everyday sexism.

72 points by creamyhorror 10y ago

It's in Japanese.

I feel like we will only see more of this all over the world. As production, warehousing and distribution become increasingly automated a significant portion of human population will not be able to find work. To solve this, we will need to rethink compensation and the idea of working for a living.

bruxis 10y ago
I agree. It's interesting to see some countries start experimenting with a base income for all residents, though I think if this becomes widespread we'll simply see the base cost of living increase to that number. I hope we can put more energy into coming up with a valid long-term solution.
- Asooka 10y ago
  I think UBI is supposed to track base cost of living, i.e. it shouldn't cause an increase on that. Even if it has a bit of surplus, market economics should guarantee the existence of cheap options, unless cartels form. Which is a problem we should be solving regardless.
- digi_owl 10y ago
  I guess it will depend. Unless you are stuck in a "latte" habit, a basic income, at least if it is paid out of national coffers rather than local ones, will enable you to up and move where living is cheaper. That is perhaps the hardest part of current day public support structures, that they lock you into staying put.
  - Annatar 10y ago
    If enough people move to where it's cheaper, it causes a housing shortage, and then the price of housing rises, following increased demand. There are finite number of places where housing is cheaper. At the same time, we multiply and multiply.
  - mjevans 10y ago
    The environmental impact and loss of network effect efficiency (for society) would be dramatic. This is why I believe that we need to find the political will to make the cities more affordable (and also nicer) to live in than the outlying areas.
nickff 10y ago
We have had similar dislocations in the past; while they were painful transitions, people took on different jobs. Up until the late 1800s, the vast majority of Americans were farmers, who were dislocated as farm productivity rose; some of them suffered, but almost all of their children found new and more prosperous careers. There is no reason to believe this time is different.
- eropple 10y ago
  There most certainly is reason to believe that this time is different: because automation is owned capital that replaces labor entirely and modern automation is able to scale in ways that industrialization could never dream of. This doesn't create new jobs at scale--only so many people can be robot repairpeople. It's not "new job" territory. It's "no job" territory. And it's the recipe for a permanent underclass unless we actually use our heads for more than hat racks and re-think how a modern economy is supposed to work.
  - nickff 10y ago
    I could make the same argument about farm equipment eliminating farmers' jobs, and not leaving as many jobs for farm equipment repair. The problem is that we cannot imagine what ideas for productive work others might come up with in the future.
    - lgieron 10y ago
      > I could make the same argument about farm equipment eliminating farmers' jobs, and not leaving as many jobs for farm equipment repair. This. 300 years ago, 90+% of population was working in agriculture - now it's around 2% in developed countries. And yet, there was no armageddon - we managed to develop all these new needs that keep people employed. People saying that "this time it will be different" ignore the almost unlimited growth potential of some industries, such as for example teaching (we could go back to the standard of one teacher per one pupil that rich people had back in the day), psychological counsel (potentially everybody could benefit from a shrink/coach), or human-based health care (more nurses -> better standard of care).
tn13 10y ago
Luddite! I think widespread automation will dramatically increase human productivity and lower prices and bring amazing new products that will help all of live a better life including for those poor people. Without the level of automation we have today do you think poor people could afford television or car or even a can of soda? Think of many more amazing things that would be easily accessible for poor people across the world because the new wave of automation. Human beings pushed out from less productive works is a good thing for humanity in general. If some kid today grows up think she would do a job of a factory shop worker I think it is a bit waste of human talent. She can be lot more. Getting rid of minimum wage laws might be the best way to help those who are being pushed out of the employment due to automation.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

martin_henk 10y ago

In Japan also highly educated people have problems finding jobs. Asia cares in general less about it's citizens than Europe I guess. System is massively skewed with little social upward mobility.

rXoX 10y ago

The most interesting part of this is how indifferent people are to it. I live in Canada. We've had Food Banks for 35 years. When they started, there were a few "Oh that's too bad" editorials, then averybody just 'normalized' it. We started to see a homelessness problem back in the 90's, until it too became "normal", so that the citizenry simply assumed 'those people' had it coming to 'em. Now we've got a serious problem because middle-aged professionals can't afford housing and the accompanying news articles assigning blame to municipal governments, provinces and the federal government are everywhere you look - a classic case of hot-potato politics. But no one blames an electorate that did nothing, voted no differently, acted indifferently or simply sat around and let it happen because all the bad things were happening to people who, you know, 'probably brought it on themselves'. And that's the problem. In the developed world, it's become habit forming for the electorate to watch as people at the edges of society and those on lower socio-economic rungs crumble away into 'irrelevance'. Or, as some would call them - the 'deplorable' class. I suspect it will take a another 2 decades before it become crystal clear that the winners are being winnowed down and the losers are looming larger and larger. We're seeing the first edge now, but it's only going to get bigger. And angrier.

ChrisArchitect 10y ago

(2014)

Paul_S 10y ago

That's just the trailer. Actual documentaries are somewhere else: http://mediastorm.com/clients/japans-disposable-workers-overworked-to-suicide-for-pulitzer-center http://mediastorm.com/clients/japans-disposable-workers-over... http://mediastorm.com/clients/japans-disposable-workers-net-cafe-refugees-for-pulitzer-center http://mediastorm.com/clients/japans-disposable-workers-net-... "Fucking hell" describes my reaction accurately. When I was a kid and wanted a job in video games I was considering both the UK and Japan. Quite happy with my choice (of country, not career - that sucked). Every article about work in Japan I read baffles me because it all strikes me as insanely inefficient, yet they're one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Then again so is Qatar.

welanes 10y ago

Some auxiliary watching for those who want a peek inside the life of a Japanese temporary employee is 'Japan A Story of Love and Hate' (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH-kNnq7mFM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH-kNnq7mFM). It's a documentary on hopelessness, captured beautifully. Well worth an hour of your time.

koder2016 10y ago

The real everyday sexism.