6 ms·

Nothing said here is true. Windows 10 is not a "privacy nightmare" (ironic coming from an Android user!), nor a usability one. There are no unprompted upgrades,

Nothing said here is true. Windows 10 is not a "privacy nightmare" (ironic coming from an Android user!), nor a usability one. There are no unprompted upgrades, but it is aggressive about keeping your device up-to-date (will auto reboot if you postpone too long) which is A Good Thing.

wlesieutre 10y ago
Let's agree to disagree then. The autoupdate scheduling is terrible. You can set a "active hours" window where it won't try to force reboot on you, but it's limited to 8 hours, and there's no provision for setting different active hours on weekdays vs weekends. Because obviously the usage profile on my home computer is the same on Wednesday as it is on Saturday. The autoupdates load garbage onto your computer (Candy Crush Soda Saga?) even if you've previously uninstalled it and obviously didn't want it. I paid >$100 for this, and it's stuffed with ads. Solitaire and Minesweeper are freemium apps with a subscription of $10/year to get rid of ads. Seriously? Minesweeper needs to be a subscription? I've been running Windows on my desktops, but I've lately relegated it to gaming only, and am dual booting Linux for programming and content creation work. Windows 7 was great, it stayed out of the way and let me get my work done. Windows 10 has a feeling that I have to work around the computer to trick it into letting me be productive.
- konradb 10y ago
  > Solitaire and Minesweeper are freemium apps with a subscription of $10/year to get the full version. Seriously? Minesweeper needs to be a subscription? Is this true? You have to have a paid subscription to get what is the equivalent of some 1992 public domain game?
  - wlesieutre 10y ago
    The main result of paying for Premium is that it removes the advertising. Why that sort of advertising has been baked into a $120 operating system, I have no idea. I guess someone got greedy and figured nobody would quit the OS over it. Their Weather app is full of ads too, last I checked. It's a large factor in why I've switched to Linux as much as possible, though MS still got my money for a W10 license so it's not much of a victory. http://www.pcgamer.com/windows-10-solitaire-requires-a-subscription-to-remove-ads/ http://www.pcgamer.com/windows-10-solitaire-requires-a-subsc...
    - BrandonLive 10y ago
      The apps and games you mentioned aren't part of the OS. And remember, Windows 10 was free if you got it in the first year.
      - wlesieutre 10y ago
        I got it in the first year (was actually running all the insider builds before the retail release). The free license was tied to my motherboard which promptly died, so I had to buy a new one at full price. EDIT: And besides, just because they're not an essential feature doesn't make me happy that the previously included things have been removed. Say what you will about Apple's hardware, but they went the opposite direction with bundled software. Keynote/Pages/Numbers used to be an optional package ($50 IIRC), but shifted to an included feature. They don't even have banner/video ads shoved all over.
        BrandonLive 10y ago
        This is in fact untrue. You would not have needed a new license for a replacement motherboard if that really happened. At worst you might need to make a phone call to MS, though even that is an unusual case.
      - RaleyField 10y ago
        > if you got it in the first year. You are really trying to get me out of the bounds of acceptable decorum of this site. Really??? I see a very prominent conditional in your reply. I suppose MS has a right to screw over people who got free upgrades (not really), but I got to pay for my copy of Windows with a new computer a few weeks ago and still get the privilege of seeing all the anti-consumer crap that comes with it. I'd also venture a guess that proportion of users who aren't using free upgrade offer will increase with time - how is your argument supposed to age, Brandon?
        BrandonLive 10y ago
        Putting a couple ads in free games in the App Store is not "screwing over people". Nor is it "anti-consumer". In fact, the whole point isn't even to make money from them, but to support the Windows developer ecosystem by promoting other apps and jump starting a viable ad network. Also note that Apple and Google do the same thing.
  - sosuke 10y ago
    The core games are still free but they have embraces the "in-app purchase" model of offering extras for $$$.
- BrandonLive 10y ago
  @konrad As is often the case there's a hint of truth but overall it's misleading. They're not talking about the old-school Win32 games, but rather the new Xbox Live-enabled games which are free-to-play and offer a bunch of premium functionality like tournaments and regular content additions - things most people don't need but some enthusiasts presumably appreciate. You can play it for free with a much, much wider range of games and features than the old 1992 classic. Updates should never reinstall anything you've removed (including Candy Crush).
  - wlesieutre 10y ago
    > Updates should never reinstall anything you've removed (including Candy Crush). And yet it did. Looking into it, MS is playing the "bug" card and has said it won't happen next time. I'm not sure whether to believe them, or if it was a "we wanted to see if we could get away with it" approach to getting more ad installs. https://rcpmag.com/articles/2016/08/24/anniversary-update-restores-deleted-apps.aspx https://rcpmag.com/articles/2016/08/24/anniversary-update-re... While it shouldn't be reinstalling apps you've removed, they still intend to automatically add new "promoted apps" to your start menu. But each time they sell a slot, you should only need to remove it the one time and it won't come back.
    - BrandonLive 10y ago
      This is incorrect. The programmed pinned apps in the current releases of Win10 are only applied to new installs or when upgrading from Win7 or 8.x. They are never applied during Win10 updates (unless there's a bug of course). The entire pinned space is customizable by the user and user customizations are always maintained.
  - konradb 10y ago
    Ah I see, I figured this was just plain Minesweeper that you could have played on an Apple ][e! Thanks for the info, it isn't quite as bad as it initially sounded. Shame that there is still advertising in the OS though.
- pier25 10y ago
  > The autoupdates load garbage onto your computer (Candy Crush Soda Saga?) I've been using Windows 10 before it had a public release and I've never seen anything like this on my machines. It seems like you really have a mess on yours. I also removed anything that I didn't want from the Start menu. I don't understand why you wouldn't do the same. It sounds like the problem here is not really Windows 10.
  - lmm 10y ago
    The problem absolutely is windows 10. From elsewhere in the thread: https://rcpmag.com/articles/2016/08/24/anniversary-update-restores-deleted-apps.aspx https://rcpmag.com/articles/2016/08/24/anniversary-update-re...
  - wlesieutre 10y ago
    Old thread, but another thing making the rounds today: http://www.pcworld.com/article/3138493/windows/here-we-go-again-microsofts-popping-up-ads-from-the-windows-10-toolbar.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/3138493/windows/here-we-go-ag... I know you're going to tell me I should just close the advertisement and the problem here isn't really Windows 10, but the problem is that the ads exist in the first place after I paid $120 for it.
- jmkni 10y ago
  I'm a long time Windows user and I've never experienced the problems described above. I stick to Enterprise though, maybe that's why?
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
a-saleh 10y ago
I respectfuly disagree. Unprompted upgrades are only a good thing if they don't cause down-time.
- baldfat 10y ago
  Coming from Linux I HATE how updates require a reboot on Windows. I got into the habit of just powering off all the time with Windows now that I have a SSD. It seriously is a 10 second boot and I never have these reboot issues.
  - oneeyedpigeon 10y ago
    What proportion of Windows updates require a reboot? Are we talking about OS updates or application ones too? I remember this being ridiculous 10 years ago; if it's still a thing in 2016, I'm quite glad I moved over to OSX.
    - baldfat 10y ago
      It's the monthly updates. Also it is AppleOS :P
    - BrandonLive 10y ago
      Reboots are usually required for monthly "patch Tuesday" updates, though sometimes they are not. Out-of-band updates are rare but do happen in the event of a critical, urgent security update. The OS only sets a deadline for the reboot (where it will force if you postpone too long) if the update includes a critical security update. Firmware and core driver updates also require a reboot, but don't have deadlines and the schedule depends on the hardware vendor. Oh, and if your machine is in the Windows Insider program, all build upgrades have deadlines so you hit the "forced reboot" much more often than a normal user.
  - pier25 10y ago
    FWIW macOS also requires reboot for system updates.
lotsofpulp 10y ago
The fact that they decided to make it a default to use your personal bandwidth to serve updates to their other customers shows their attitude. Windows is also 50+GB, which is just ridiculous. No user should have to deal with all the user hostile settings changes cleanup that you have to do.
- BrandonLive 10y ago
  @lotsofpulp LOL. Windows is not 50GB, the full install ISO supporting all editions is 3.5GB, and installed it takes roughly twice that (varies a bit by edition and optional components you install). By default it helps conserve bandwidth by downloading updates once and sharing among other machines on your network.
  - lotsofpulp 10y ago
    My current Windows installation is 53.6GB, with 29.5GB in a folder called Installer, and 12.9GB in a folder called System32, and 6.1GB in a folder called WinSxS. I have similarly bloated Windows directories in other computers. It also shouldn't be my problem to Google how to delete defunct Windows system files or whatnot. Also, the default setting is for Windows to use your bandwidth to share their system files or update files to other windows computers anywhere in the world. Not just your network. So it is in effect, using extra upload bandwidth that you would have otherwise not used. In fact, you have to set your connection to metered for this to be disabled.
    - BrandonLive 10y ago
      This is not an accurate way to measure the size of Windows as most of those folders contain no files, just hard links. There is no reason for you to have to worry about deleting "defunct system files", the OS handles this just fine on its own. You do not have to set your connection to metered to disable P2P updates, there's a setting just for that, and there's really no reason to disable it in the first place.
      - 10y ago
jen20 10y ago
Auto Reboot to install an update is never a good thing, and totally unacceptable. I recently saw someone miss a conference presentation because their (Windows) laptop decided to do this. It doubled down on my determination to never touch Windows again.
firephreek 10y ago
It's a 'Good Thing' until you lose 4 hours worth of work because of an unprompted and unstoppable update. There are very much indeed unprompted upgrades. There's also all of the reverted settings and re-installed applications. I don't want or need 'People' and 'Weather' and 'Xbox' and all the rest. Please leave them off, thank you very much.
- BrandonLive 10y ago
  There should always be a prompt. There should never be reverted settings or reinstalled applications. Are you on Insider builds? If so, you should expect more aggressive updates and bugs.

wlesieutre 10y ago

Let's agree to disagree then. The autoupdate scheduling is terrible. You can set a "active hours" window where it won't try to force reboot on you, but it's limited to 8 hours, and there's no provision for setting different active hours on weekdays vs weekends. Because obviously the usage profile on my home computer is the same on Wednesday as it is on Saturday. The autoupdates load garbage onto your computer (Candy Crush Soda Saga?) even if you've previously uninstalled it and obviously didn't want it. I paid >$100 for this, and it's stuffed with ads. Solitaire and Minesweeper are freemium apps with a subscription of $10/year to get rid of ads. Seriously? Minesweeper needs to be a subscription? I've been running Windows on my desktops, but I've lately relegated it to gaming only, and am dual booting Linux for programming and content creation work. Windows 7 was great, it stayed out of the way and let me get my work done. Windows 10 has a feeling that I have to work around the computer to trick it into letting me be productive.

konradb 10y ago
> Solitaire and Minesweeper are freemium apps with a subscription of $10/year to get the full version. Seriously? Minesweeper needs to be a subscription? Is this true? You have to have a paid subscription to get what is the equivalent of some 1992 public domain game?
- wlesieutre 10y ago
  The main result of paying for Premium is that it removes the advertising. Why that sort of advertising has been baked into a $120 operating system, I have no idea. I guess someone got greedy and figured nobody would quit the OS over it. Their Weather app is full of ads too, last I checked. It's a large factor in why I've switched to Linux as much as possible, though MS still got my money for a W10 license so it's not much of a victory. http://www.pcgamer.com/windows-10-solitaire-requires-a-subscription-to-remove-ads/ http://www.pcgamer.com/windows-10-solitaire-requires-a-subsc...
  - BrandonLive 10y ago
    The apps and games you mentioned aren't part of the OS. And remember, Windows 10 was free if you got it in the first year.
    - wlesieutre 10y ago
      I got it in the first year (was actually running all the insider builds before the retail release). The free license was tied to my motherboard which promptly died, so I had to buy a new one at full price. EDIT: And besides, just because they're not an essential feature doesn't make me happy that the previously included things have been removed. Say what you will about Apple's hardware, but they went the opposite direction with bundled software. Keynote/Pages/Numbers used to be an optional package ($50 IIRC), but shifted to an included feature. They don't even have banner/video ads shoved all over.
      - BrandonLive 10y ago
        This is in fact untrue. You would not have needed a new license for a replacement motherboard if that really happened. At worst you might need to make a phone call to MS, though even that is an unusual case.
    - RaleyField 10y ago
      > if you got it in the first year. You are really trying to get me out of the bounds of acceptable decorum of this site. Really??? I see a very prominent conditional in your reply. I suppose MS has a right to screw over people who got free upgrades (not really), but I got to pay for my copy of Windows with a new computer a few weeks ago and still get the privilege of seeing all the anti-consumer crap that comes with it. I'd also venture a guess that proportion of users who aren't using free upgrade offer will increase with time - how is your argument supposed to age, Brandon?
      - BrandonLive 10y ago
        Putting a couple ads in free games in the App Store is not "screwing over people". Nor is it "anti-consumer". In fact, the whole point isn't even to make money from them, but to support the Windows developer ecosystem by promoting other apps and jump starting a viable ad network. Also note that Apple and Google do the same thing.
- sosuke 10y ago
  The core games are still free but they have embraces the "in-app purchase" model of offering extras for $$$.
BrandonLive 10y ago
@konrad As is often the case there's a hint of truth but overall it's misleading. They're not talking about the old-school Win32 games, but rather the new Xbox Live-enabled games which are free-to-play and offer a bunch of premium functionality like tournaments and regular content additions - things most people don't need but some enthusiasts presumably appreciate. You can play it for free with a much, much wider range of games and features than the old 1992 classic. Updates should never reinstall anything you've removed (including Candy Crush).
- wlesieutre 10y ago
  > Updates should never reinstall anything you've removed (including Candy Crush). And yet it did. Looking into it, MS is playing the "bug" card and has said it won't happen next time. I'm not sure whether to believe them, or if it was a "we wanted to see if we could get away with it" approach to getting more ad installs. https://rcpmag.com/articles/2016/08/24/anniversary-update-restores-deleted-apps.aspx https://rcpmag.com/articles/2016/08/24/anniversary-update-re... While it shouldn't be reinstalling apps you've removed, they still intend to automatically add new "promoted apps" to your start menu. But each time they sell a slot, you should only need to remove it the one time and it won't come back.
  - BrandonLive 10y ago
    This is incorrect. The programmed pinned apps in the current releases of Win10 are only applied to new installs or when upgrading from Win7 or 8.x. They are never applied during Win10 updates (unless there's a bug of course). The entire pinned space is customizable by the user and user customizations are always maintained.
- konradb 10y ago
  Ah I see, I figured this was just plain Minesweeper that you could have played on an Apple ][e! Thanks for the info, it isn't quite as bad as it initially sounded. Shame that there is still advertising in the OS though.
pier25 10y ago
> The autoupdates load garbage onto your computer (Candy Crush Soda Saga?) I've been using Windows 10 before it had a public release and I've never seen anything like this on my machines. It seems like you really have a mess on yours. I also removed anything that I didn't want from the Start menu. I don't understand why you wouldn't do the same. It sounds like the problem here is not really Windows 10.
- lmm 10y ago
  The problem absolutely is windows 10. From elsewhere in the thread: https://rcpmag.com/articles/2016/08/24/anniversary-update-restores-deleted-apps.aspx https://rcpmag.com/articles/2016/08/24/anniversary-update-re...
- wlesieutre 10y ago
  Old thread, but another thing making the rounds today: http://www.pcworld.com/article/3138493/windows/here-we-go-again-microsofts-popping-up-ads-from-the-windows-10-toolbar.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/3138493/windows/here-we-go-ag... I know you're going to tell me I should just close the advertisement and the problem here isn't really Windows 10, but the problem is that the ads exist in the first place after I paid $120 for it.
jmkni 10y ago
I'm a long time Windows user and I've never experienced the problems described above. I stick to Enterprise though, maybe that's why?

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

a-saleh 10y ago

I respectfuly disagree. Unprompted upgrades are only a good thing if they don't cause down-time.

baldfat 10y ago
Coming from Linux I HATE how updates require a reboot on Windows. I got into the habit of just powering off all the time with Windows now that I have a SSD. It seriously is a 10 second boot and I never have these reboot issues.
- oneeyedpigeon 10y ago
  What proportion of Windows updates require a reboot? Are we talking about OS updates or application ones too? I remember this being ridiculous 10 years ago; if it's still a thing in 2016, I'm quite glad I moved over to OSX.
  - baldfat 10y ago
    It's the monthly updates. Also it is AppleOS :P
  - BrandonLive 10y ago
    Reboots are usually required for monthly "patch Tuesday" updates, though sometimes they are not. Out-of-band updates are rare but do happen in the event of a critical, urgent security update. The OS only sets a deadline for the reboot (where it will force if you postpone too long) if the update includes a critical security update. Firmware and core driver updates also require a reboot, but don't have deadlines and the schedule depends on the hardware vendor. Oh, and if your machine is in the Windows Insider program, all build upgrades have deadlines so you hit the "forced reboot" much more often than a normal user.
- pier25 10y ago
  FWIW macOS also requires reboot for system updates.

lotsofpulp 10y ago

The fact that they decided to make it a default to use your personal bandwidth to serve updates to their other customers shows their attitude. Windows is also 50+GB, which is just ridiculous. No user should have to deal with all the user hostile settings changes cleanup that you have to do.

BrandonLive 10y ago
@lotsofpulp LOL. Windows is not 50GB, the full install ISO supporting all editions is 3.5GB, and installed it takes roughly twice that (varies a bit by edition and optional components you install). By default it helps conserve bandwidth by downloading updates once and sharing among other machines on your network.
- lotsofpulp 10y ago
  My current Windows installation is 53.6GB, with 29.5GB in a folder called Installer, and 12.9GB in a folder called System32, and 6.1GB in a folder called WinSxS. I have similarly bloated Windows directories in other computers. It also shouldn't be my problem to Google how to delete defunct Windows system files or whatnot. Also, the default setting is for Windows to use your bandwidth to share their system files or update files to other windows computers anywhere in the world. Not just your network. So it is in effect, using extra upload bandwidth that you would have otherwise not used. In fact, you have to set your connection to metered for this to be disabled.
  - BrandonLive 10y ago
    This is not an accurate way to measure the size of Windows as most of those folders contain no files, just hard links. There is no reason for you to have to worry about deleting "defunct system files", the OS handles this just fine on its own. You do not have to set your connection to metered to disable P2P updates, there's a setting just for that, and there's really no reason to disable it in the first place.
    - 10y ago

jen20 10y ago

Auto Reboot to install an update is never a good thing, and totally unacceptable. I recently saw someone miss a conference presentation because their (Windows) laptop decided to do this. It doubled down on my determination to never touch Windows again.

firephreek 10y ago

It's a 'Good Thing' until you lose 4 hours worth of work because of an unprompted and unstoppable update. There are very much indeed unprompted upgrades. There's also all of the reverted settings and re-installed applications. I don't want or need 'People' and 'Weather' and 'Xbox' and all the rest. Please leave them off, thank you very much.

BrandonLive 10y ago
There should always be a prompt. There should never be reverted settings or reinstalled applications. Are you on Insider builds? If so, you should expect more aggressive updates and bugs.