6 ms·

Radeon R9 M370X (MacBook Pro 2015) vs. Radeon Pro 460 (MacBook Pro 2016)

43 points by mangeletti 10y ago

mangeletti 10y ago
I'm a die-hard MacBook Pro fan, and despite the negative press around the new model's specs, I will somehow find a way to convince myself to buy one. This comparison is the first good news I found. I just entered the GPU model from my Retina 2015 MacBook Pro and the highest GPU option from the 2016 line-up. I think, for a notebook, this looks pretty good, and it uses about 1/3 the energy of its desktop counterpart (Radeon RX 460). A few spec comparisons to the 2015 GPU: 1. floating-point - 82% faster 2. texture mapping - 82% faster 3. texture mapping units - 60% more 4. shading units - 60% more 5. GPU memory - 100% more Radeon Pro 460 (MacBook Pro) vs Radeon RX 460 (desktop): http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-RX-460-vs-Radeon-Pro-460 http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-RX-460-vs-Radeon-Pro-460 That's not as bad as everyone has made it out to be, right? Or, is it that the 2015 was just terrible?
- vomitcuddle 10y ago
  The R9 M370X was based on the Cape Verde architecture, released in 2012. http://videocardz.com/55641/radeon-r9-m370x-confirmed-to-utilize-three-year-old-gpu http://videocardz.com/55641/radeon-r9-m370x-confirmed-to-uti...
- wsc981 10y ago
  I am a MacBook Pro fan as well and will upgrade my model next year. I think the new version is great and I like the new touch bar, but since Apple made some big changes I expect there will be some issues as well which should be fixed in the first revision. Apple often has issues these days when making major changes to their devices. I bought my current 15" MacBook Pro early 2015 and it still performs most excellent, so I should be fine for another year. P.S.: My 15" MBP only has an integrated GPU, which is fine for minor gaming like League of Legends or World of Warcraft.
  - overcast 10y ago
    One year replacement cycle, why bother though? I mean of course it still performs excellent, it's nearly brand new.
    - the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
      Why one year? It's almost two in and sounds like it will be 3 before replacement.
    - wsc981 10y ago
      One year replacement cycle, why bother though? I mean of course it still performs excellent, it's nearly brand new. Kinda because I can. Since I buy a laptop on behalf of my company (I am a freelancer) I pay about half price in reality. Company investments are deductible from tax and VAT is returned to me. By that time I can still sell my old laptop for a good price, in effect paying very little for a brand new MBP.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
- matt4077 10y ago
  To cheer you up: The touchbar is actually kinda awesome if you can find someone with an ounce of creativity: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwC8SNvW8AQgeWN.png:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwC8SNvW8AQgeWN.png:large Also, I guess these specs seem plausible. But that website is seriously insulting my senses. And I really don't care about the number of shading units, at least not in winter.
  - nedsma 10y ago
    That seems neat, but it's also unpractical. Looking at the touch bar is like looking at the keyboard. I like to keep my eyes focused on the screen.
    - ccallebs 10y ago
      I agree. With vim, running the current spec file for me is <LEADER> c. <LEADER> l for the last spec file ran. I don't even have to think about it.
- albertgao 10y ago
  the only wow factor Apple has added is to insert a i7 HQ CPU and a dGPU to a 15inch laptop while can still make it only 1.8kg and 10 hours battery. This is the only advantage over new surface book. But the price is just a little bit insane, but besides this and that touch bar, good device.
  - robhu 10y ago
    Well, the other advantage is that it can run Windows and OS X. I suspect if OS X were available (legally and supported) for other laptop hardware the sales of MBPs would fall. Who would rather get a MBP over a Razer Blade Pro for example?
    - dlevine 10y ago
      The Razer Blade Pro is 17.3in and 7.8lbs, so probably most people who aren't looking for a luggable workstation or high-end gaming rig. The Razer Blade is fairly compelling, although it isn't cheap (over $2000 if you want the version with the high-res screen), and weighs (a bit) more than the 15" MBP wile only having a 14" screen.
      - wbond 10y ago
        If you care about graphics performance, the Nvidia 1060 (http://gpuboss.com/graphics-card/GeForce-GTX-1060#specs http://gpuboss.com/graphics-card/GeForce-GTX-1060#specs) in the Razer Blade will run circles around the Radeon Pro 460 (http://gpuboss.com/graphics-card/-9223372036822812418#specs http://gpuboss.com/graphics-card/-9223372036822812418#specs). A 512GB SSD 16GB ram Razer Blade is $2299. An equivalent rMBP (512GB SSD 16GB ram) with Radeon Pro 260 is $2799. It all depends on your use case and requirements. If GPU is important to you, Windows will likely be a choice. Whereas if you need to do mac/i/tvOS development, then macOS is your only option.
        selectodude 10y ago
        The Nvidia mobile 1060 has a TDP of 75 watts. The Radeon 460 in the MacBook Pro is 35 watts. They're not in the same class.
- robhu 10y ago
  It's a definite improvement, but quite disappointing if you want to use the GPU for pro use (e.g. video processing), given that there are other pro laptops out there now that include things like GTX 1060 and 1080 that are up to 5 times more performant. It's a good upgrade over what was there previously, but it's disappointing relative to the rest of the market. I understand Apple want to optimise for battery life and thinness, but it would have been nice if there'd been a choice (have this GPU and 10 hours battery life, or a 1080 and 5 hours battery life)... or dual GPU like before so you could have a 1080 or 1060 in there but normally use a low power integrated GPU. The Razer Blade Pro (17", mechanical keyboard, desktop class graphics, 32GB on board, ...) is exactly what I actually want in a Macbook Pro. It's just a shame it doesn't run OS X.
  - philjohn 10y ago
    What's the battery life like on those Pro laptops? Ideally Apple would release an external graphics card that communicates via TB3 for docked pro use, and then use the discrete Radeon Pro 460 when on the road.
    - nakedrobot2 10y ago
      The battery life is under two hours when you're doing "that kind of work". Also, the GPU is severely throttled when the laptop is not plugged into the AC power.
      - robhu 10y ago
        Yes, and wouldn't it be good to let the pro buying the laptop make that choice?
        selectodude 10y ago
        You can make that choice. By not buying the MacBook Pro. All these articles and comments that imply that Apple has put a gun to their head seem a bit overblown. Hell, Apple is still selling the old model if you're really that upset about USB-C.
replete 10y ago
All you need to know is that the new 460 is 1.9TFlops, almost double the R9 M370X.
inDigiNeous 10y ago
What I'm wondering is when will Apple finally update the OpenGL drivers, so we can take full advantage of the GPUs ? Of course it's possible to do many things with workarounds, but for example compute shaders are introduced in OpenGL 4.3 IIRC, and Apple currently supports only OpenGL 4.1 with some 4.2 extensions, released in 2010 already :P Any idea if Apple has any plans to update their OpenGL drivers to modern versions ? Or are they just gonna focus on the more iOS/mobile optimized Metal ? Sucks anyway to do cross platform graphics development on a Mac laptop soon if they don't do something about this.
- jsheard 10y ago
  All signs point to "never" with regard to newer OpenGL versions, and there's no signs of them adopting Vulkan either. For modern graphics you're stuck with Metal or MoltenVK: https://moltengl.com/moltenvk/ https://moltengl.com/moltenvk/
boardwaalk 10y ago
And here I am, just finding out the 15" has discrete graphics after buying the 13" which does not. Regardless, to me 13" is a much better form factor. I had a 15" years ago and it seemed to have so much awkward empty space around where your wrists go.
- mangeletti 10y ago
  You've get 14 days of return policy. Assuming you're talking about the new Touch Bar MBP, you've still got at least a week left.
  - boardwaalk 10y ago
    It's a touch bar model which doesn't ship for 2-3 weeks, but thank you.
skeptic2718 10y ago
Dell is updating the XPS 15 with a NVIDIA 10 series card soon-ish (December?). Any one shopping for a decent dGPU on a light laptop should consider it.
- emidln 10y ago
  Their current top-end XPS 15 already supports 32GB RAM, a 1TB NVMe, 4k touchscreen and has an NVIDIA GTX 960M. I was looking into it recently and it was on-sale for $2250. Maybe I should wait for the update. I like the idea of having a 15" screen with a smaller form factor (without the bevels).
jagger27 10y ago
I'm most curious how the Radeon Pro 450 stacks up against the Intel Iris 550.
replete 10y ago
I've just shared my spreadsheet comparing 2016 Laptops. There's a column listing Gflops, which is relevant to this thread: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nnmI9pN9rBMBJHE1gqYAPfbnfJiZFdA8voah8O2nmNk/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nnmI9pN9rBMBJHE1gqYA...
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
samwillis 10y ago
What I don't understand about Macbook Pros (as an owner of one) is that there isn't a model with a "Pro" level graphics card - so an AMD FirePro or Nvindia Quadro. The price bracket they are in has competitor laptops with them, and a lot of "pro" 3d graphics software only officially support them.
- saidajigumi 10y ago
  Serious question: what outside of legacy (i.e. almost all of it) Windows CAD software uses or benefits from FirePro cards and the like? I spoke with a dev of a CAD suite I actually use, one of the few that doesn't have a requirement to use one of these cards, and asked about this. The reply was preceded by a snort of disdain: "no we use any DirectX compatible GPU. Get a good gaming card, it's cheaper and better." My impression, right or wrong, is that this segment of the graphics card market mostly serves expensive legacy (and almost entirely Windows) enterprise graphics packages that don't want to migrate to more modern graphics APIs and cards.
- mozumder 10y ago
  Are there people that do 3-D modeling or 4k video color grading on a laptop?
finishingmove 10y ago
Does anyone know what the maximum possible (combined-)output resolution of the Radeon Pro 460 is? I'm having a hard time finding this info on AMD's website.

43 points by mangeletti 10y ago

I'm a die-hard MacBook Pro fan, and despite the negative press around the new model's specs, I will somehow find a way to convince myself to buy one. This comparison is the first good news I found. I just entered the GPU model from my Retina 2015 MacBook Pro and the highest GPU option from the 2016 line-up. I think, for a notebook, this looks pretty good, and it uses about 1/3 the energy of its desktop counterpart (Radeon RX 460). A few spec comparisons to the 2015 GPU: 1. floating-point - 82% faster 2. texture mapping - 82% faster 3. texture mapping units - 60% more 4. shading units - 60% more 5. GPU memory - 100% more Radeon Pro 460 (MacBook Pro) vs Radeon RX 460 (desktop): http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-RX-460-vs-Radeon-Pro-460 http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-RX-460-vs-Radeon-Pro-460 That's not as bad as everyone has made it out to be, right? Or, is it that the 2015 was just terrible?

vomitcuddle 10y ago
The R9 M370X was based on the Cape Verde architecture, released in 2012. http://videocardz.com/55641/radeon-r9-m370x-confirmed-to-utilize-three-year-old-gpu http://videocardz.com/55641/radeon-r9-m370x-confirmed-to-uti...
wsc981 10y ago
I am a MacBook Pro fan as well and will upgrade my model next year. I think the new version is great and I like the new touch bar, but since Apple made some big changes I expect there will be some issues as well which should be fixed in the first revision. Apple often has issues these days when making major changes to their devices. I bought my current 15" MacBook Pro early 2015 and it still performs most excellent, so I should be fine for another year. P.S.: My 15" MBP only has an integrated GPU, which is fine for minor gaming like League of Legends or World of Warcraft.
- overcast 10y ago
  One year replacement cycle, why bother though? I mean of course it still performs excellent, it's nearly brand new.
  - the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
    Why one year? It's almost two in and sounds like it will be 3 before replacement.
  - wsc981 10y ago
    One year replacement cycle, why bother though? I mean of course it still performs excellent, it's nearly brand new. Kinda because I can. Since I buy a laptop on behalf of my company (I am a freelancer) I pay about half price in reality. Company investments are deductible from tax and VAT is returned to me. By that time I can still sell my old laptop for a good price, in effect paying very little for a brand new MBP.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
matt4077 10y ago
To cheer you up: The touchbar is actually kinda awesome if you can find someone with an ounce of creativity: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwC8SNvW8AQgeWN.png:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwC8SNvW8AQgeWN.png:large Also, I guess these specs seem plausible. But that website is seriously insulting my senses. And I really don't care about the number of shading units, at least not in winter.
- nedsma 10y ago
  That seems neat, but it's also unpractical. Looking at the touch bar is like looking at the keyboard. I like to keep my eyes focused on the screen.
  - ccallebs 10y ago
    I agree. With vim, running the current spec file for me is <LEADER> c. <LEADER> l for the last spec file ran. I don't even have to think about it.
albertgao 10y ago
the only wow factor Apple has added is to insert a i7 HQ CPU and a dGPU to a 15inch laptop while can still make it only 1.8kg and 10 hours battery. This is the only advantage over new surface book. But the price is just a little bit insane, but besides this and that touch bar, good device.
- robhu 10y ago
  Well, the other advantage is that it can run Windows and OS X. I suspect if OS X were available (legally and supported) for other laptop hardware the sales of MBPs would fall. Who would rather get a MBP over a Razer Blade Pro for example?
  - dlevine 10y ago
    The Razer Blade Pro is 17.3in and 7.8lbs, so probably most people who aren't looking for a luggable workstation or high-end gaming rig. The Razer Blade is fairly compelling, although it isn't cheap (over $2000 if you want the version with the high-res screen), and weighs (a bit) more than the 15" MBP wile only having a 14" screen.
    - wbond 10y ago
      If you care about graphics performance, the Nvidia 1060 (http://gpuboss.com/graphics-card/GeForce-GTX-1060#specs http://gpuboss.com/graphics-card/GeForce-GTX-1060#specs) in the Razer Blade will run circles around the Radeon Pro 460 (http://gpuboss.com/graphics-card/-9223372036822812418#specs http://gpuboss.com/graphics-card/-9223372036822812418#specs). A 512GB SSD 16GB ram Razer Blade is $2299. An equivalent rMBP (512GB SSD 16GB ram) with Radeon Pro 260 is $2799. It all depends on your use case and requirements. If GPU is important to you, Windows will likely be a choice. Whereas if you need to do mac/i/tvOS development, then macOS is your only option.
      - selectodude 10y ago
        The Nvidia mobile 1060 has a TDP of 75 watts. The Radeon 460 in the MacBook Pro is 35 watts. They're not in the same class.
robhu 10y ago
It's a definite improvement, but quite disappointing if you want to use the GPU for pro use (e.g. video processing), given that there are other pro laptops out there now that include things like GTX 1060 and 1080 that are up to 5 times more performant. It's a good upgrade over what was there previously, but it's disappointing relative to the rest of the market. I understand Apple want to optimise for battery life and thinness, but it would have been nice if there'd been a choice (have this GPU and 10 hours battery life, or a 1080 and 5 hours battery life)... or dual GPU like before so you could have a 1080 or 1060 in there but normally use a low power integrated GPU. The Razer Blade Pro (17", mechanical keyboard, desktop class graphics, 32GB on board, ...) is exactly what I actually want in a Macbook Pro. It's just a shame it doesn't run OS X.
- philjohn 10y ago
  What's the battery life like on those Pro laptops? Ideally Apple would release an external graphics card that communicates via TB3 for docked pro use, and then use the discrete Radeon Pro 460 when on the road.
  - nakedrobot2 10y ago
    The battery life is under two hours when you're doing "that kind of work". Also, the GPU is severely throttled when the laptop is not plugged into the AC power.
    - robhu 10y ago
      Yes, and wouldn't it be good to let the pro buying the laptop make that choice?
      - selectodude 10y ago
        You can make that choice. By not buying the MacBook Pro. All these articles and comments that imply that Apple has put a gun to their head seem a bit overblown. Hell, Apple is still selling the old model if you're really that upset about USB-C.

replete 10y ago

All you need to know is that the new 460 is 1.9TFlops, almost double the R9 M370X.

inDigiNeous 10y ago

What I'm wondering is when will Apple finally update the OpenGL drivers, so we can take full advantage of the GPUs ? Of course it's possible to do many things with workarounds, but for example compute shaders are introduced in OpenGL 4.3 IIRC, and Apple currently supports only OpenGL 4.1 with some 4.2 extensions, released in 2010 already :P Any idea if Apple has any plans to update their OpenGL drivers to modern versions ? Or are they just gonna focus on the more iOS/mobile optimized Metal ? Sucks anyway to do cross platform graphics development on a Mac laptop soon if they don't do something about this.

jsheard 10y ago
All signs point to "never" with regard to newer OpenGL versions, and there's no signs of them adopting Vulkan either. For modern graphics you're stuck with Metal or MoltenVK: https://moltengl.com/moltenvk/ https://moltengl.com/moltenvk/

boardwaalk 10y ago

And here I am, just finding out the 15" has discrete graphics after buying the 13" which does not. Regardless, to me 13" is a much better form factor. I had a 15" years ago and it seemed to have so much awkward empty space around where your wrists go.

mangeletti 10y ago
You've get 14 days of return policy. Assuming you're talking about the new Touch Bar MBP, you've still got at least a week left.
- boardwaalk 10y ago
  It's a touch bar model which doesn't ship for 2-3 weeks, but thank you.

skeptic2718 10y ago

Dell is updating the XPS 15 with a NVIDIA 10 series card soon-ish (December?). Any one shopping for a decent dGPU on a light laptop should consider it.

emidln 10y ago
Their current top-end XPS 15 already supports 32GB RAM, a 1TB NVMe, 4k touchscreen and has an NVIDIA GTX 960M. I was looking into it recently and it was on-sale for $2250. Maybe I should wait for the update. I like the idea of having a 15" screen with a smaller form factor (without the bevels).

jagger27 10y ago

I'm most curious how the Radeon Pro 450 stacks up against the Intel Iris 550.

replete 10y ago

I've just shared my spreadsheet comparing 2016 Laptops. There's a column listing Gflops, which is relevant to this thread: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nnmI9pN9rBMBJHE1gqYAPfbnfJiZFdA8voah8O2nmNk/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nnmI9pN9rBMBJHE1gqYA...

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

samwillis 10y ago

What I don't understand about Macbook Pros (as an owner of one) is that there isn't a model with a "Pro" level graphics card - so an AMD FirePro or Nvindia Quadro. The price bracket they are in has competitor laptops with them, and a lot of "pro" 3d graphics software only officially support them.

saidajigumi 10y ago
Serious question: what outside of legacy (i.e. almost all of it) Windows CAD software uses or benefits from FirePro cards and the like? I spoke with a dev of a CAD suite I actually use, one of the few that doesn't have a requirement to use one of these cards, and asked about this. The reply was preceded by a snort of disdain: "no we use any DirectX compatible GPU. Get a good gaming card, it's cheaper and better." My impression, right or wrong, is that this segment of the graphics card market mostly serves expensive legacy (and almost entirely Windows) enterprise graphics packages that don't want to migrate to more modern graphics APIs and cards.
mozumder 10y ago
Are there people that do 3-D modeling or 4k video color grading on a laptop?

finishingmove 10y ago

Does anyone know what the maximum possible (combined-)output resolution of the Radeon Pro 460 is? I'm having a hard time finding this info on AMD's website.