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That also includes Reshaper, PyCharm, Webstorm, and CLion. These tools are awesome for students. Somewhere else mentioned if students really need these kinds o

by 0xCMP 10y ago

That also includes Reshaper, PyCharm, Webstorm, and CLion. These tools are awesome for students. Somewhere else mentioned if students really need these kinds of tools? To write code? Probably not, it's better if they spent the time to use Vim/Emacs or just got going with Atom/VSCode/Sublime. But none of those editors support the ease of clicking on something and seeing what that is. A class, a function, etc. Jetbrain's support for this in any language they support is probably the best anywhere and the editor itself is damn good. I try my very best to get rid of it and I always find myself coming back. Rarely can anything match it's features which once you learn how to use them you'll often need on a day to day basis.

spapas82 10y ago
For Java I'd say yes, students do need an IDE (or to be more specific their life would be very difficult without an IDE). It is really difficult to write java, even trivial programs without an IDE (because of Java's long package and class names). Since IntelliJ Studio is the defacto standard in Java IDEs (having surpassed Eclipse and Netbeans) I think that it is really great for students to be able use that IDE for their student projects. Of course the usage of the IDE must not prevent then from familiaring themselves with classpaths and compiling a Java program with more than one packages through the command line!
- 0xCMP 10y ago
  I mostly do Python and Node (usually all in PyCharm), but I agree for Java it's nice to have an editor.
- triplebit 10y ago
  > Since IntelliJ Studio is the defacto standard in Java IDEs (having surpassed Eclipse and Netbeans) Incorrect. Eclipse remains superior and is in far greater use across the world and the enterprise landscape.
  - AnthonBerg 10y ago
    Having also used Eclipse, I strongly disagree about its superiority; If it is popular, then I believe that is explained by its price and the self-sustaining property of ubiquity. I myself found Eclipse cumbersome and lacking in capacity. I do respect others' preference for it, but it cannot be said to be objectively superior.
    - Roboprog 10y ago
      Agreed. Started with Eclipse, then Netbeans, now IntelliJ. Cumbersome seems like a good description for Eclipse. I love the ease with which you can reconfigure the layout from task to task with IntelliJ. "Distraction Free" mode shows that they "get" what bugs many people about IDEs sucking up screen space for very little in some cases.
  - reitanqild 10y ago
    As someone who grew up in my Java career on Eclipse, have had a paid IntelliJ license and then started using Netbeans despite all warnings against it I strongly encourage everyone to at least try Netbeans on their own. Main benefits: - The whole thing is free. No pro or enterprise version. (That said this isn't cheapness on my side: I can have an IntelliJ license any day I ask my boss as he is an incurable fan. For me it is enough to fix his IntelliJ once in a while. ;-) - Happily uses Maven poms as project models. No more problems with out of sync IDE configs. What builds on the build server is exactly what I see in the Project view. - Standard keybindings follows modern OS conventions and you can switch to Eclipse or IntelliJ keybindings in options if you want. - Doesn't scare noobs the way eclipse does. Not a problem for me, I used to love eclipse, but for a team lead this might be an advantage.
wernercd 10y ago
"it's better if they spent the time to use Vim/Emacs or just got going with Atom/VSCode/Sublime." It's better learning to use the tools they will need. Period. The problem is what tools will they need? The tools for Web Dev is different from iOS dev is different from game programming is different from... The tools available on Windows are different from the tools available on Linux... different form the tools on Macs... I'm sorry, but "real programmers learn to use VIM and bad ones use IDEs" is BS. Real programmers do what every craft does: Gets the best tools they can get their hands on and learns the in's and out's of them. Which is why you keep going back to the best tools available. You'd be an idiot not to.
- 0xCMP 10y ago
  Never said that. A student should learn the way things actually work. They shouldn't get thrown in to an IDE so teachers don't need to explain the basics of a developer's workflow to them. However, after a period of getting used to things, they should DEFINITELY use an IDE as a tool to expand their understanding since eventually they'd use it to get actual work done. An editor is MUCH easier to learn the in's and out's of than a full-blown IDE. Start small. Force them to understand. And THEN introduce them to IDEs. Does this happen this way? Not Really. I started with Visual Studio. But I've taught friends this way and it really helps accelerate them past the usual bumps in the road when you're first learning.
  - wernercd 10y ago
    Learning how things "actually" work is different than learning how to get things done. There is definitely room for learning how things work "under then hood". Aka algorithm work, creating your own bubble sort, creating your own blog, etc. Those skills get added to your list of tools. Understanding which sort is best for which application... which language... which paradigm. If you don't learn the different things, you become a programmer that uses a hammer for a solutions - because it's the only tool you know. Granted, I may have been a bit harsh - it's hard to do sarcasm, tone of voice, etc in text message. So take my post with a grain of salt :)
    - 10y ago

by 0xCMP 10y ago

spapas82 10y ago

For Java I'd say yes, students do need an IDE (or to be more specific their life would be very difficult without an IDE). It is really difficult to write java, even trivial programs without an IDE (because of Java's long package and class names). Since IntelliJ Studio is the defacto standard in Java IDEs (having surpassed Eclipse and Netbeans) I think that it is really great for students to be able use that IDE for their student projects. Of course the usage of the IDE must not prevent then from familiaring themselves with classpaths and compiling a Java program with more than one packages through the command line!

0xCMP 10y ago
I mostly do Python and Node (usually all in PyCharm), but I agree for Java it's nice to have an editor.
triplebit 10y ago
> Since IntelliJ Studio is the defacto standard in Java IDEs (having surpassed Eclipse and Netbeans) Incorrect. Eclipse remains superior and is in far greater use across the world and the enterprise landscape.
- AnthonBerg 10y ago
  Having also used Eclipse, I strongly disagree about its superiority; If it is popular, then I believe that is explained by its price and the self-sustaining property of ubiquity. I myself found Eclipse cumbersome and lacking in capacity. I do respect others' preference for it, but it cannot be said to be objectively superior.
  - Roboprog 10y ago
    Agreed. Started with Eclipse, then Netbeans, now IntelliJ. Cumbersome seems like a good description for Eclipse. I love the ease with which you can reconfigure the layout from task to task with IntelliJ. "Distraction Free" mode shows that they "get" what bugs many people about IDEs sucking up screen space for very little in some cases.
- reitanqild 10y ago
  As someone who grew up in my Java career on Eclipse, have had a paid IntelliJ license and then started using Netbeans despite all warnings against it I strongly encourage everyone to at least try Netbeans on their own. Main benefits: - The whole thing is free. No pro or enterprise version. (That said this isn't cheapness on my side: I can have an IntelliJ license any day I ask my boss as he is an incurable fan. For me it is enough to fix his IntelliJ once in a while. ;-) - Happily uses Maven poms as project models. No more problems with out of sync IDE configs. What builds on the build server is exactly what I see in the Project view. - Standard keybindings follows modern OS conventions and you can switch to Eclipse or IntelliJ keybindings in options if you want. - Doesn't scare noobs the way eclipse does. Not a problem for me, I used to love eclipse, but for a team lead this might be an advantage.

wernercd 10y ago

"it's better if they spent the time to use Vim/Emacs or just got going with Atom/VSCode/Sublime." It's better learning to use the tools they will need. Period. The problem is what tools will they need? The tools for Web Dev is different from iOS dev is different from game programming is different from... The tools available on Windows are different from the tools available on Linux... different form the tools on Macs... I'm sorry, but "real programmers learn to use VIM and bad ones use IDEs" is BS. Real programmers do what every craft does: Gets the best tools they can get their hands on and learns the in's and out's of them. Which is why you keep going back to the best tools available. You'd be an idiot not to.

0xCMP 10y ago
Never said that. A student should learn the way things actually work. They shouldn't get thrown in to an IDE so teachers don't need to explain the basics of a developer's workflow to them. However, after a period of getting used to things, they should DEFINITELY use an IDE as a tool to expand their understanding since eventually they'd use it to get actual work done. An editor is MUCH easier to learn the in's and out's of than a full-blown IDE. Start small. Force them to understand. And THEN introduce them to IDEs. Does this happen this way? Not Really. I started with Visual Studio. But I've taught friends this way and it really helps accelerate them past the usual bumps in the road when you're first learning.
- wernercd 10y ago
  Learning how things "actually" work is different than learning how to get things done. There is definitely room for learning how things work "under then hood". Aka algorithm work, creating your own bubble sort, creating your own blog, etc. Those skills get added to your list of tools. Understanding which sort is best for which application... which language... which paradigm. If you don't learn the different things, you become a programmer that uses a hammer for a solutions - because it's the only tool you know. Granted, I may have been a bit harsh - it's hard to do sarcasm, tone of voice, etc in text message. So take my post with a grain of salt :)
  - 10y ago