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TouchBar killed the tactile ESC key. People using vim or BootCamp and/or Linux, Windows, VMware, or Photoshop are in for a more difficult ride. So instead of h

TouchBar killed the tactile ESC key. People using vim or BootCamp and/or Linux, Windows, VMware, or Photoshop are in for a more difficult ride. So instead of having access to ESC/Func keys, we can type emoji or use Apple Pay. The hardware on all Macs are updated on a very infrequent basis as mentioned in the article. GPUs sold with machines today are often the same as ones sold years ago. Apple killed their external monitor option.

trurl 10y ago
I really think too many people are making a big deal of the TouchBar. I'm a vim user, and when the first rumors of it surfaced earlier this year I switched ESC to capslock and after a day or so adapted just fine. I don't know that I really need any of the things TouchBar offers, but it seems to be unreasonably vilified without no one actually using it. For me the key issue is the performance, which no amount of key remapping can solve.
- jasonjei 10y ago
  I'm just wondering how one will install certain OSes if the Func keys aren't usable during OS install in Boot Camp. I don't remember being able to remap an installer hotkeys easily. Maybe Apple doesn't want that demographic, or perhaps we'll have to connect a USB-C keyboard. Boot Camp drivers are also terribly out of date.
  - threeseed 10y ago
    Boot Camp has already been addressed though. The function keys will be shown and since Touch Bar is running WatchOS it should be easily possible to show them without drivers.
    - jasonjei 10y ago
      I read that there is an independent ARM processor controlling TouchBar. Is there solid proof the TouchBar reverts to Func keys when no OS has initialized/rendered keys to the TouchBar?
      - aduitsis 10y ago
        Federighi has already confirmed it. http://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/28/using-touch-bar-with-boot-camp-windows/ http://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/28/using-touch-bar-with-boo...
        grzm 10y ago
        I was looking at that article as well. I read that as confirming how the Touch Bar will work under Windows in Boot Camp. GP is asking a different question: how will the Touch Bar work for non-Windows OSes, in particular during the boot or OS initialization process itself?
  - matt4077 10y ago
    At this point I'm starting to assume that people are acting in bad faith when they pretend that the toolbar somehow turns to emoji mode when you're working in a terminal or rebooting or whatever. I do this because all of Apple's material has focused on it's context-sensitivity and configurability. Here's a screenshot of function keys: http://images.apple.com/v/macbook-pro/j/images/overview/touchbar_access_function_large.jpg http://images.apple.com/v/macbook-pro/j/images/overview/touc...
    - jasonjei 10y ago
      No, my point is Apple is pushing consumer's uses such as typing emoji above the developer's needs, such as pressing ESC. Yes, you certainly still can "press" ESC, but I suspect I won't be used to the touching a screen sensation when reaching for the ESC key without looking at my key plate. I'm very aware of the contextual TouchBar. Yes, I'm sure the Touch Bar will useful for the consumer demographic. However, there are many of us who are much more effective with the keyboard rather than using a touchscreen or a mouse.
      - matt4077 10y ago
        Here's an idea of how it could be incredibly useful for the l33d professionals: https://twitter.com/VilleImmonen/status/792840677021351936/photo/1 https://twitter.com/VilleImmonen/status/792840677021351936/p...
        Lio 10y ago
        It's nice to see some ideas being played with but I think there are two issues with that image. 1. The Esc key isn't butted against the edge of the touch bar. Because it's not always in the same place means it's hard to press without looking down. 2. The same is true for the run tests shortcuts. I'll miss the f keys less than Esc but things like test shortcuts, I find, are best committed to muscle memory.
zepto 10y ago
This seems weird. Sure you can argue about the tactile nature of the escape key being important, but the soft versions are still available. The hardware update statement is simply not true of all Macs. The iMac has been regularly kept up to date. It is true of the MacBook Pro, but they have just released a new design, and we can expect them to incrementally improve it as they have done in the past after a new design is released. Who cares about Apple not selling an external monitor when they are readily available from other vendors?
- Lio 10y ago
  > Sure you can argue about the tactile nature of the escape key being important, but the soft versions are still available. From the screenshots released, the Esc and other keys have been centred in the middle of the bar. This means that the Esc "key" now moves depending on context. That might still be fine for "hunt n' peck" typists but it's a real pain for touch typists as it will kill our muscle memory. If the screenshots and product videos are to be believed it means Apple either didn't consider heavy console users or considered them but deprioitised their needs. Neither of these is a good thing for me. :(
threeseed 10y ago
Look at all the screenshots of the Touch Bar. Many of them have the Esc key present. And you must be seriously out of touch if you think it's a deal breaker. Also it's rumours that Apple killed their external monitor option.
- Aloha 10y ago
  I think people are complaining because apple no longer sells an external monitor of its own. I might be an outlier, but I don't care too much about the Escape key - I think the on screen one will probably work just as well for me - I am annoyed however at the net removal of two ports, inclusion of just one USB A port would have been enough to make me happy - that one USB A port would be enough to make up for the loss of Magsafe and HDMI. I also don't like that I now need a bevy of adapters to do everything I did before without any adapters at all.
- wpietri 10y ago
  It's a dealbreaker for me. I was considering switching from years of buying Thinkpads to getting some Apple hardware. One of my big beefs with Lenovo is that they keep redesigning the keyboards, steadily making them worse from my perspective. But the Esc key thing kills it for me. Partly because the escape key location is baked into my brain, and I want it to be a physical key with tactile response. And partly because this is a sign to me that they are likely to keep screwing with the keyboard in a way that makes it better for whomever they're targeting but worse for programmers.
matt4077 10y ago
> Apple killed their external monitor option. You can drive two 5k displays with the new MacBooks, and they ask me to tell you they're fine. The just need a bit of time to think things through.

trurl 10y ago

I really think too many people are making a big deal of the TouchBar. I'm a vim user, and when the first rumors of it surfaced earlier this year I switched ESC to capslock and after a day or so adapted just fine. I don't know that I really need any of the things TouchBar offers, but it seems to be unreasonably vilified without no one actually using it. For me the key issue is the performance, which no amount of key remapping can solve.

jasonjei 10y ago
I'm just wondering how one will install certain OSes if the Func keys aren't usable during OS install in Boot Camp. I don't remember being able to remap an installer hotkeys easily. Maybe Apple doesn't want that demographic, or perhaps we'll have to connect a USB-C keyboard. Boot Camp drivers are also terribly out of date.
- threeseed 10y ago
  Boot Camp has already been addressed though. The function keys will be shown and since Touch Bar is running WatchOS it should be easily possible to show them without drivers.
  - jasonjei 10y ago
    I read that there is an independent ARM processor controlling TouchBar. Is there solid proof the TouchBar reverts to Func keys when no OS has initialized/rendered keys to the TouchBar?
    - aduitsis 10y ago
      Federighi has already confirmed it. http://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/28/using-touch-bar-with-boot-camp-windows/ http://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/28/using-touch-bar-with-boo...
      - grzm 10y ago
        I was looking at that article as well. I read that as confirming how the Touch Bar will work under Windows in Boot Camp. GP is asking a different question: how will the Touch Bar work for non-Windows OSes, in particular during the boot or OS initialization process itself?
- matt4077 10y ago
  At this point I'm starting to assume that people are acting in bad faith when they pretend that the toolbar somehow turns to emoji mode when you're working in a terminal or rebooting or whatever. I do this because all of Apple's material has focused on it's context-sensitivity and configurability. Here's a screenshot of function keys: http://images.apple.com/v/macbook-pro/j/images/overview/touchbar_access_function_large.jpg http://images.apple.com/v/macbook-pro/j/images/overview/touc...
  - jasonjei 10y ago
    No, my point is Apple is pushing consumer's uses such as typing emoji above the developer's needs, such as pressing ESC. Yes, you certainly still can "press" ESC, but I suspect I won't be used to the touching a screen sensation when reaching for the ESC key without looking at my key plate. I'm very aware of the contextual TouchBar. Yes, I'm sure the Touch Bar will useful for the consumer demographic. However, there are many of us who are much more effective with the keyboard rather than using a touchscreen or a mouse.
    - matt4077 10y ago
      Here's an idea of how it could be incredibly useful for the l33d professionals: https://twitter.com/VilleImmonen/status/792840677021351936/photo/1 https://twitter.com/VilleImmonen/status/792840677021351936/p...
      - Lio 10y ago
        It's nice to see some ideas being played with but I think there are two issues with that image. 1. The Esc key isn't butted against the edge of the touch bar. Because it's not always in the same place means it's hard to press without looking down. 2. The same is true for the run tests shortcuts. I'll miss the f keys less than Esc but things like test shortcuts, I find, are best committed to muscle memory.

zepto 10y ago

This seems weird. Sure you can argue about the tactile nature of the escape key being important, but the soft versions are still available. The hardware update statement is simply not true of all Macs. The iMac has been regularly kept up to date. It is true of the MacBook Pro, but they have just released a new design, and we can expect them to incrementally improve it as they have done in the past after a new design is released. Who cares about Apple not selling an external monitor when they are readily available from other vendors?

Lio 10y ago
> Sure you can argue about the tactile nature of the escape key being important, but the soft versions are still available. From the screenshots released, the Esc and other keys have been centred in the middle of the bar. This means that the Esc "key" now moves depending on context. That might still be fine for "hunt n' peck" typists but it's a real pain for touch typists as it will kill our muscle memory. If the screenshots and product videos are to be believed it means Apple either didn't consider heavy console users or considered them but deprioitised their needs. Neither of these is a good thing for me. :(

threeseed 10y ago

Look at all the screenshots of the Touch Bar. Many of them have the Esc key present. And you must be seriously out of touch if you think it's a deal breaker. Also it's rumours that Apple killed their external monitor option.

Aloha 10y ago
I think people are complaining because apple no longer sells an external monitor of its own. I might be an outlier, but I don't care too much about the Escape key - I think the on screen one will probably work just as well for me - I am annoyed however at the net removal of two ports, inclusion of just one USB A port would have been enough to make me happy - that one USB A port would be enough to make up for the loss of Magsafe and HDMI. I also don't like that I now need a bevy of adapters to do everything I did before without any adapters at all.
wpietri 10y ago
It's a dealbreaker for me. I was considering switching from years of buying Thinkpads to getting some Apple hardware. One of my big beefs with Lenovo is that they keep redesigning the keyboards, steadily making them worse from my perspective. But the Esc key thing kills it for me. Partly because the escape key location is baked into my brain, and I want it to be a physical key with tactile response. And partly because this is a sign to me that they are likely to keep screwing with the keyboard in a way that makes it better for whomever they're targeting but worse for programmers.

matt4077 10y ago

> Apple killed their external monitor option. You can drive two 5k displays with the new MacBooks, and they ask me to tell you they're fine. The just need a bit of time to think things through.