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This is a distinctively white Christian thing? Surely there have been, since ancient times, people in every corner of the world who believe the world is real (w

by Chinjut 10y ago

This is a distinctively white Christian thing? Surely there have been, since ancient times, people in every corner of the world who believe the world is real (whatever it amounts to to believe this as opposed to not believing it) and recognize cause and effect (again, I can't even fathom what it would amount to to be a civilization which did not acknowledge cause and effect). ETA: Looked up Henry M. Morris. Ah; he's a young Earth creationist, and "the father of modern creation science". I see.

noiv 10y ago
If you get into the quantum realm cause and effect start to get really blurry. Nevertheless quantum theroy is an exact description of nature. Maybe cause and effect is just a very good model of our daily experienced macro world and therefore hardcoded in our brains.
tomohawk 10y ago
You seem to think that bringing race into this is somehow acceptable. It's not. If you have something specific against the quote other than innuendo, I'm sure there are less offensive ways to make your point. Looking at other world views prevalent at the time, the metaphysical was inextricably tied up in the physical. Christianity asserts that the world is real, and that it is worth studying.
- tpeo 10y ago
  You mean your particular sect of christianity. Christian Gnosticism and Catharism are just two historical christian sects who denied the reality of sense-perception, and who were purged for that. Not to mention christian mysticism, specially that of Meister Eckhart, or Spinozism, or any Neoplantonist interpretation of christian tradition. Christianity isn't a single theological or even metaphysical tradition, but a multitude of ones pinned to a more or less single oral tradition embodied in the bible. Specially, christianism doesn't entail physicalism. Furthermore, I don't see what's exceptional about "the world" being "real". Even the Eleatics and the Neoplatonists would've agreed to that, granted that "the world" be their "One", even though they asserted that sense-perception is illusory. If these words are taken in their most general sense, then this proposition becomes a platitude. You might as well say that "whatever is, is". And no one has ever seriously argued that nothing exists (Gorgias of Leontini did only in jest).

by Chinjut 10y ago

noiv 10y ago

If you get into the quantum realm cause and effect start to get really blurry. Nevertheless quantum theroy is an exact description of nature. Maybe cause and effect is just a very good model of our daily experienced macro world and therefore hardcoded in our brains.

tomohawk 10y ago

You seem to think that bringing race into this is somehow acceptable. It's not. If you have something specific against the quote other than innuendo, I'm sure there are less offensive ways to make your point. Looking at other world views prevalent at the time, the metaphysical was inextricably tied up in the physical. Christianity asserts that the world is real, and that it is worth studying.

tpeo 10y ago
You mean your particular sect of christianity. Christian Gnosticism and Catharism are just two historical christian sects who denied the reality of sense-perception, and who were purged for that. Not to mention christian mysticism, specially that of Meister Eckhart, or Spinozism, or any Neoplantonist interpretation of christian tradition. Christianity isn't a single theological or even metaphysical tradition, but a multitude of ones pinned to a more or less single oral tradition embodied in the bible. Specially, christianism doesn't entail physicalism. Furthermore, I don't see what's exceptional about "the world" being "real". Even the Eleatics and the Neoplatonists would've agreed to that, granted that "the world" be their "One", even though they asserted that sense-perception is illusory. If these words are taken in their most general sense, then this proposition becomes a platitude. You might as well say that "whatever is, is". And no one has ever seriously argued that nothing exists (Gorgias of Leontini did only in jest).