5 ms·

The 'cloud connected' stuff is an obnoxious gimmick, but Das's upcoming 5q is pretty close to what you're looking for: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/122

The 'cloud connected' stuff is an obnoxious gimmick, but Das's upcoming 5q is pretty close to what you're looking for: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1229573443/das-keyboard-5q-the-cloud-connected-keyboard https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1229573443/das-keyboard...

gcb0 10y ago
they got a interesting full sized keyboard (that has dying appeal) and added the most obnoxious software 'features' they could think of. Everything from Das is really dysfunctional and sad. And i really wanted to like them.
- breischl 10y ago
  >>Everything from Das is really dysfunctional and sad. I don't think that's fair. I've had a Das for a couple years now (Model S Pro, IIRC) and it's a solid, well designed keyboard. No obnoxious software AFAICT. The whole "cloud keyboard" thing does sound gimmicky, I just don't think it's reasonable to paint their entire product line that way.
djhworld 10y ago
I have a Das Keyboard, it's a really nice product, mechanical switches etc. I don't see a use case for this though, I rarely look at my keyboard.
- the_duke 10y ago
  And why is that? Because usually there's absolutely no reason to do so, because it's static and you you have the layout in muscle memory.
  - grogenaut 10y ago
    - because the density of information on the screen is higher and the screen is much larger. - Because staring at your keyboard isn't great for your neck. - Because when I'm typing I'm outputting my brain into the computer, I'm not trying to take in input. - BECAUSE YOUR HANDS BLOCK THE KEYBOARD. The mouse is more of a follow and enter type of interface, as is touch. Keyboards are a high ply (eg 102 keys + shifts) with chords and chains, in that a you generally hit a series of keys to do something (typing) and not a single button. So massively more options than the 12 they can get up there on the top row. So memorization wins out in my mind here. Where I think this would help is when you're learning new things and have to move your hand to figure it out. Like say a new character in dota... but again the monitor is better. This keyboard looks cool tho. Tho wish they'd put some non-mac pics up.
SonderDesign 10y ago
It's a small thing but a lot of editors who travel from studio to studio will have their own work process, it's very specific to power users; which this product is designed for. If the feature is a gimmick to you, it's fine; but others really appreciate it and in testing with video editors etc it's something we get a ton of feedback for including.
- cesnja 10y ago
  Have you considered just storing the settings and configuration in the keyboard itself?
  - SonderDesign 10y ago
    Haha, of course, we have an API on the client which comms with the on board flash; the cloud is just a back up of a user profile so if an editor is at a new studio they can dl their profile quickly. It's an option that creative design demographic constantly ask for.
    - Quequau 10y ago
      So the keyboard works fine, including all other features, without connecting to the "cloud"?
      - SonderDesign 10y ago
        Correct, the cloud is just an option which is off as standard.
- OrthoMetaPara 10y ago
  >If the feature is a gimmick to you, it's fine If I'm familiar with an application, I don't look at the keyboard. If I'm VERY familiar with an application, I don't even recall commands through their mnemonic, but through muscle memory. For example, I've just switched to spacemacs from vim, and one of the first commands to learn is Ctrl+G, which is to exit from any menu. "Escape from menu" is not mapped into my brain as C-g, but as "pinky here and left index finger here." In contrast, when I want to change to next buffer, I think <SPC> b n, and not "thumb, right index finger on this button, then right index finger on this button" (although I'm sure that it will become muscle memory before long.) HOWEVER, the nice thing about spacemacs is that you can press space and you see all possible commands pop up in the command buffer. This is a highly effective method for learning commands, and it is similar to how the "ribbon design" functioned in Microsoft Office 2007. This is where I think the E-ink keyboard could be most useful: in teaching keystrokes. It's essentially the same thing as looking down at the spacemacs command buffer, but you get to see the command pop up on your keyboard. That being said, there are a lot of downsides to the whole idea. You're stuck with a very limited set of switch-and-layout combinations if you want an e-ink keyboard. Secondly, keyboards take a lot of abuse, and I don't know how much a replacement e-ink keycap costs, or where I'm going to get one (maybe this won't be such an issue, though). Finally, the glyph can only be represented as a glyph, and not as a detailed command like it can in a spacemacs buffer. Cool product though; I'd get one if I had money to burn!
anexprogrammer 10y ago
Interesting idea. I can think of a couple of uses I'd put that to. If it wasn't cloud config I'd back it enough to get one.
- SonderDesign 10y ago
  Appreciate the feedback, it's just an option; if the user just wants to rely on the mappings stored on flash they can.
  - anexprogrammer 10y ago
    To clarify, I was disliking the DAS keyboard he linked having config that's crowd sourced and appears to be permanently connected. For your keyboard I would highlight how the config only optionally uses cloud and that your settings are quite happy offline. I see cloud and keyboard or mouse and think "avoid". A couple of gaming devices and their awful connected software has caused that reaction. I'd expect some others to make similar association! :)

gcb0 10y ago

they got a interesting full sized keyboard (that has dying appeal) and added the most obnoxious software 'features' they could think of. Everything from Das is really dysfunctional and sad. And i really wanted to like them.

breischl 10y ago
>>Everything from Das is really dysfunctional and sad. I don't think that's fair. I've had a Das for a couple years now (Model S Pro, IIRC) and it's a solid, well designed keyboard. No obnoxious software AFAICT. The whole "cloud keyboard" thing does sound gimmicky, I just don't think it's reasonable to paint their entire product line that way.

djhworld 10y ago

I have a Das Keyboard, it's a really nice product, mechanical switches etc. I don't see a use case for this though, I rarely look at my keyboard.

the_duke 10y ago
And why is that? Because usually there's absolutely no reason to do so, because it's static and you you have the layout in muscle memory.
- grogenaut 10y ago
  - because the density of information on the screen is higher and the screen is much larger. - Because staring at your keyboard isn't great for your neck. - Because when I'm typing I'm outputting my brain into the computer, I'm not trying to take in input. - BECAUSE YOUR HANDS BLOCK THE KEYBOARD. The mouse is more of a follow and enter type of interface, as is touch. Keyboards are a high ply (eg 102 keys + shifts) with chords and chains, in that a you generally hit a series of keys to do something (typing) and not a single button. So massively more options than the 12 they can get up there on the top row. So memorization wins out in my mind here. Where I think this would help is when you're learning new things and have to move your hand to figure it out. Like say a new character in dota... but again the monitor is better. This keyboard looks cool tho. Tho wish they'd put some non-mac pics up.

SonderDesign 10y ago

It's a small thing but a lot of editors who travel from studio to studio will have their own work process, it's very specific to power users; which this product is designed for. If the feature is a gimmick to you, it's fine; but others really appreciate it and in testing with video editors etc it's something we get a ton of feedback for including.

cesnja 10y ago
Have you considered just storing the settings and configuration in the keyboard itself?
- SonderDesign 10y ago
  Haha, of course, we have an API on the client which comms with the on board flash; the cloud is just a back up of a user profile so if an editor is at a new studio they can dl their profile quickly. It's an option that creative design demographic constantly ask for.
  - Quequau 10y ago
    So the keyboard works fine, including all other features, without connecting to the "cloud"?
    - SonderDesign 10y ago
      Correct, the cloud is just an option which is off as standard.
OrthoMetaPara 10y ago
>If the feature is a gimmick to you, it's fine If I'm familiar with an application, I don't look at the keyboard. If I'm VERY familiar with an application, I don't even recall commands through their mnemonic, but through muscle memory. For example, I've just switched to spacemacs from vim, and one of the first commands to learn is Ctrl+G, which is to exit from any menu. "Escape from menu" is not mapped into my brain as C-g, but as "pinky here and left index finger here." In contrast, when I want to change to next buffer, I think <SPC> b n, and not "thumb, right index finger on this button, then right index finger on this button" (although I'm sure that it will become muscle memory before long.) HOWEVER, the nice thing about spacemacs is that you can press space and you see all possible commands pop up in the command buffer. This is a highly effective method for learning commands, and it is similar to how the "ribbon design" functioned in Microsoft Office 2007. This is where I think the E-ink keyboard could be most useful: in teaching keystrokes. It's essentially the same thing as looking down at the spacemacs command buffer, but you get to see the command pop up on your keyboard. That being said, there are a lot of downsides to the whole idea. You're stuck with a very limited set of switch-and-layout combinations if you want an e-ink keyboard. Secondly, keyboards take a lot of abuse, and I don't know how much a replacement e-ink keycap costs, or where I'm going to get one (maybe this won't be such an issue, though). Finally, the glyph can only be represented as a glyph, and not as a detailed command like it can in a spacemacs buffer. Cool product though; I'd get one if I had money to burn!

anexprogrammer 10y ago

Interesting idea. I can think of a couple of uses I'd put that to. If it wasn't cloud config I'd back it enough to get one.

SonderDesign 10y ago
Appreciate the feedback, it's just an option; if the user just wants to rely on the mappings stored on flash they can.
- anexprogrammer 10y ago
  To clarify, I was disliking the DAS keyboard he linked having config that's crowd sourced and appears to be permanently connected. For your keyboard I would highlight how the config only optionally uses cloud and that your settings are quite happy offline. I see cloud and keyboard or mouse and think "avoid". A couple of gaming devices and their awful connected software has caused that reaction. I'd expect some others to make similar association! :)