4 ms·

The west is not full of naives. You simply start asking questions to your regular muslims, and all kinds of crazy answers come out. 52% of British muslims want

The west is not full of naives. You simply start asking questions to your regular muslims, and all kinds of crazy answers come out. 52% of British muslims want homosexuality made illegal. 16% of French Muslims support ISIS, 27% among aged 18-24. 31% of Belgian Muslims support ISIS. 47% of Quatar Muslims support ISIS. 37% of young British Muslims want Sharia law in Britain. 36% of young British Muslims think apostates should be killed. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/10/half-of-british-muslims-want-gay-sex-banned-says-poll/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/10/half-of-british-m... http://europe.newsweek.com/16-french-citizens-support-isis-poll-finds-266795 http://europe.newsweek.com/16-french-citizens-support-isis-p... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1540895/Young-British-Muslims-getting-more-radical.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1540895/Young-British... These are just a few polls, there are tons more online, and they are all full of crazy crazy numbers. Islam is simply not compatible with the western values, and the left is refusing to acknowledge it.

pmyjavec 10y ago
What are western values exactly ? Do they exist anymore ? Westerners are the most naive people on the planet now days, look at the US election, the pretend democracy, the constant bombing of civilians in the Middle East, the pathetic attempts at resolving climate change. Most people just pretend it's not happening. How about corporate tax evasion, what kind of scam is that? Western governments have created these things by destroying the homes of Muslim people so they had to leave, and they believe they have a license to hate the west for the wars started in their homelands. Wars based on lies. Western values are just not what they need to be, gay marriage is far from acceptable in a lot of major western counties. If you know where I can find the book of western values and some good examples where they're being applied right now, I'd love to read it.
- raverbashing 10y ago
  Nice troll. I wonder if it's feigned ignorance (insidiousness) or just plain incapacity of a greater comprehension. All I say it is not surprising
- nickik 10y ago
  Blaiming all Muslim trouples on the west is simply inaccurate. The west has very little responsibility in Syria for example. Before the west ever got there, the problems existed. Also, don't pretend that the countries are not different because of the problems you listed. There is still a major difference in western countries compared to countries run by dictators all around the world. No amount of Trump or Tax evation can change that. I know its easy to be synical, but lets not throw realism overboard completly.
  - pmyjavec 10y ago
    "The west has very little responsibility in Syria for example." Is that a joke ? Also, nowhere did I claim the west created all the problems in the east.
    - nickik 10y ago
      Was the Arab spring cause by the west? Did the West start gas bombing the people of Syria? The US has much to answer for on how ISIS came into existence but the Syrian Civil War more narrowly is a local situation. The rebels might have been defeated faster if not for Western support but that about all that can be said. You can of course go further back and blame France for the situation in Syria but it starts to be a futile argument.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
mcguire 10y ago
I'll see your crazy answers and raise you...Donald Trump. It appears that much of the west is not compatible with western values.
- dep_b 10y ago
  You played the Trump card. I see what you did there. But even in places where you can choose between many parties there's a really strict code that if you have any "Islamophobic" standpoints you will not be accepted by the "correct" parties. So you end up choosing between the one rightwing nutcase party or all the other ones that are in denial. The "cordon sanitaire" is a real thing. The majority of the political parties and seats in parliament reflect the opinion of a minority of the people nowadays. I still can't vote for people like Le Pen or Wilders because I'm usually more progressive / liberal but I simply cannot and will not blame the people that do. I want to live in a country where we can make a "Life of Brian" like movie about Muhammed, where women and gay people have equal rights not just in law but also within the community. If a multicultural, progressive society is too complex / modern / intimidating to stand there are plenty of other places to go and build your own life to your own believes. They're hanging gay people in Saudi Arabia and Iran, I heard they're really welcoming countries and a paradise to live in. If that's the thing that gets you off, go there. I've seen an amazing amount of Muslim people just cope fine with Western society over the years so I'm sure it's not Muslims as a group, just the guys that went 11 on the scale of Westboro Baptist Church.
- raverbashing 10y ago
  Saying "crazy answers" is a cop-out Facts are not crazy, though the context of some of the pools might be misinterpreted.
- imaginenore 10y ago
  You saying "I raise you... Donald Trump" doesn't do anything for me. You need to be a lot more specific. From what I see, Trump is not even close to the beheading, bombing, driving-trucks-through crowds religious fanatics, who are supported by large percentages of the followers of the same religion.
- bassman9000 10y ago
pessimizer 10y ago
So what you're saying 1) is that British Muslims are more liberal about homosexuality than the general British public was in the 60s, and probably exactly the same as British evangelical Christians, 2) that French and Belgian Muslims register far less support for ISIS than relatively liberal Qatar, and 3) that nearly 2/3rds of young British Muslims have rejected basic tenets of their religion as symbolic or metaphorical. I'd like to see those same polls on evangelical Christians, or frum Jews, or again the general British public in 1966.
- imaginenore 10y ago
  1) You're trying to justify one messed up thing with another. Sorry, just because your neighbor killed someone, doesn't mean it's OK for you to do it. Both are wrong. I'm not a fan of Christianity either, and thankfully, it's on its way out in most of Europe. 2) "Relatively liberal" Qatar is not, not compared to France or Belgium. 3) Don't care. The percentages of the radical supporters of the crazy/violent jihadists are still high among muslims. And yeah, good luck finding polls of the Christians/jews where half of them who want to murder those who quit their religion.
  - nashashmi 10y ago
    In that case your version of western values is today's western values, not the values of 30 years ago. And further, your version of western values is only supported by a minority of the population, similar to the numbers for Muslim population you quote. And yet somehow both set of minorities represent the entire population. If you squint hard enough, the world can seem round and flat.
    - imaginenore 10y ago
      Your comment made very little sense to me, almost as if you're making stuff up. I didn't even say anything what my version of Western values is, and you already dated them and told me what percentage of the population supports them. Try again.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]

pmyjavec 10y ago

What are western values exactly ? Do they exist anymore ? Westerners are the most naive people on the planet now days, look at the US election, the pretend democracy, the constant bombing of civilians in the Middle East, the pathetic attempts at resolving climate change. Most people just pretend it's not happening. How about corporate tax evasion, what kind of scam is that? Western governments have created these things by destroying the homes of Muslim people so they had to leave, and they believe they have a license to hate the west for the wars started in their homelands. Wars based on lies. Western values are just not what they need to be, gay marriage is far from acceptable in a lot of major western counties. If you know where I can find the book of western values and some good examples where they're being applied right now, I'd love to read it.

raverbashing 10y ago
Nice troll. I wonder if it's feigned ignorance (insidiousness) or just plain incapacity of a greater comprehension. All I say it is not surprising
nickik 10y ago
Blaiming all Muslim trouples on the west is simply inaccurate. The west has very little responsibility in Syria for example. Before the west ever got there, the problems existed. Also, don't pretend that the countries are not different because of the problems you listed. There is still a major difference in western countries compared to countries run by dictators all around the world. No amount of Trump or Tax evation can change that. I know its easy to be synical, but lets not throw realism overboard completly.
- pmyjavec 10y ago
  "The west has very little responsibility in Syria for example." Is that a joke ? Also, nowhere did I claim the west created all the problems in the east.
  - nickik 10y ago
    Was the Arab spring cause by the west? Did the West start gas bombing the people of Syria? The US has much to answer for on how ISIS came into existence but the Syrian Civil War more narrowly is a local situation. The rebels might have been defeated faster if not for Western support but that about all that can be said. You can of course go further back and blame France for the situation in Syria but it starts to be a futile argument.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

mcguire 10y ago

I'll see your crazy answers and raise you...Donald Trump. It appears that much of the west is not compatible with western values.

dep_b 10y ago
You played the Trump card. I see what you did there. But even in places where you can choose between many parties there's a really strict code that if you have any "Islamophobic" standpoints you will not be accepted by the "correct" parties. So you end up choosing between the one rightwing nutcase party or all the other ones that are in denial. The "cordon sanitaire" is a real thing. The majority of the political parties and seats in parliament reflect the opinion of a minority of the people nowadays. I still can't vote for people like Le Pen or Wilders because I'm usually more progressive / liberal but I simply cannot and will not blame the people that do. I want to live in a country where we can make a "Life of Brian" like movie about Muhammed, where women and gay people have equal rights not just in law but also within the community. If a multicultural, progressive society is too complex / modern / intimidating to stand there are plenty of other places to go and build your own life to your own believes. They're hanging gay people in Saudi Arabia and Iran, I heard they're really welcoming countries and a paradise to live in. If that's the thing that gets you off, go there. I've seen an amazing amount of Muslim people just cope fine with Western society over the years so I'm sure it's not Muslims as a group, just the guys that went 11 on the scale of Westboro Baptist Church.
raverbashing 10y ago
Saying "crazy answers" is a cop-out Facts are not crazy, though the context of some of the pools might be misinterpreted.
imaginenore 10y ago
You saying "I raise you... Donald Trump" doesn't do anything for me. You need to be a lot more specific. From what I see, Trump is not even close to the beheading, bombing, driving-trucks-through crowds religious fanatics, who are supported by large percentages of the followers of the same religion.
bassman9000 10y ago

pessimizer 10y ago

So what you're saying 1) is that British Muslims are more liberal about homosexuality than the general British public was in the 60s, and probably exactly the same as British evangelical Christians, 2) that French and Belgian Muslims register far less support for ISIS than relatively liberal Qatar, and 3) that nearly 2/3rds of young British Muslims have rejected basic tenets of their religion as symbolic or metaphorical. I'd like to see those same polls on evangelical Christians, or frum Jews, or again the general British public in 1966.

imaginenore 10y ago
1) You're trying to justify one messed up thing with another. Sorry, just because your neighbor killed someone, doesn't mean it's OK for you to do it. Both are wrong. I'm not a fan of Christianity either, and thankfully, it's on its way out in most of Europe. 2) "Relatively liberal" Qatar is not, not compared to France or Belgium. 3) Don't care. The percentages of the radical supporters of the crazy/violent jihadists are still high among muslims. And yeah, good luck finding polls of the Christians/jews where half of them who want to murder those who quit their religion.
- nashashmi 10y ago
  In that case your version of western values is today's western values, not the values of 30 years ago. And further, your version of western values is only supported by a minority of the population, similar to the numbers for Muslim population you quote. And yet somehow both set of minorities represent the entire population. If you squint hard enough, the world can seem round and flat.
  - imaginenore 10y ago
    Your comment made very little sense to me, almost as if you're making stuff up. I didn't even say anything what my version of Western values is, and you already dated them and told me what percentage of the population supports them. Try again.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]