4 ms·

Isn't it strange that the West's so called best friend in the middle east is by far the most regressive and primitive regime in the region that is allowed to wi

by throw2016 10y ago

Isn't it strange that the West's so called best friend in the middle east is by far the most regressive and primitive regime in the region that is allowed to willy nilly spread terrorist idealogy for 30 years. Western governments, media and institutions then rant and rave against human rights but tip toe around the Saudis and instead dismantle other regimes in the region inimical to the Saudis throwing millions of lives in the middle east into chaos and leaving gaping power vacuums for extremists to fill. And then simultenously spend billions of dollars building surveillance states at home making a mockery of our own commitment to democracy to deal with the fallout of the Saudi financed spread of wahhabism. There is something extremely rotten at work here unless one supposes our foreign policy apparatus is naive.

jacquesm 10y ago
It's not so strange. Hint: Oil.
- nickik 10y ago
  We really need that Syrian Oil ... Oil is a terrible explaition for most of whats going on. Oil serves as a backdrop why the US originally got in the region. However, you can explain nothing that happens short term by pointing to oil.
pmyjavec 10y ago
Sadly, it's because we're all fed nonsense and propaganda, constantly by our governments, corporations and media outlets. People are way to entertained and comfortable that it's just all too convenient to ignore. Even people's social media feeds can be tweaked to change people's views enmasse,not saying they are, but it's a real possibility. I stopped reading "The Guardian", Facebook and most main stream media sites and my mental health is much better for it. There is a serious war going on in which innocent civillians are dying and we don't actually, fully understand why, but it's being funded with our tax money. We need to wake up. I honestly believe the current implementation / configuration of western democracy in the west has been failing us for far too long, the system needs a major overhaul.
- nickik 10y ago
  Please don't spread the idea that its all funded by the west. Local actors are the most imporant players, not the global powers. The war in Syria and Iraq is financed by a hole variaty of countries, organisation and people. ISIS gets money not from Saudi Arabia but by taxation. I have also stopped reading mainstream media on these subjects. Fortunatly you can still find experts on these subjects, writting articals, blogpost or give talks.
  - pmyjavec 10y ago
    How do you actually know how the money flows in that mess, I'm genuinely curious ? By the way, you're right, I'm not saying it's entirely funded by the west, but those weapons are coming from somewhere. Do local players have fighter jets, drones etc ?
    - nickik 10y ago
      Well I can only trust experts on these things. You can find these stuff from different people and organisation. Its sometimes hard to figure out who to believe but I think you can find a reasonable amount of agreement. > By the way, you're right, I'm not saying it's entirely funded by the west, but those weapons are coming from somewhere. Yes they do, but there are a lot of actors in play, the west are just one of the players, and not the biggest one. Western weapons get resold quite a bit as well. The Syrian war is so complex because the huge amount of local, regional and global actors. All have different goals and values. Almost all regional and global actors provide some form of assistant to the groups they prefer. Often in the form of money or weapons of course. I would say in all of the West was comparatively hesitant in doing to much. Mostly because they like non of the people fighting and those they like, some of their allies don't like. The US for example, would love to support the PYD (even more), but Turkey essentially says PYD=PKK and the US has the PKK on the terror list. It seems that even most Foreign policy experts are highly unsure how to handle the current situation. > Do local players have fighter jets, drones etc ? No, but most fighting is not done with fighter jets and drones. Also, regional players, such as Jordan, Turkey, Iran and so on DO have fighter jets. The US could of course stop selling jets to Jordan but that would not change the current situation very much. Plus it would have many other effects. In my opinion the hole ME policy should be rethought but that needs a larger context.
mcguire 10y ago
I was particularly amused by the recent attack ads against Clinton, reporting that repressive countries that had the death penalty for homosexuality, etc., supported the Clinton Foundation. They carefully don't mention the country: That would be the Bushs' Saudi Arabia.
- JoeAltmaier 10y ago
  "Supported" means "contributed to the programs that benefit their people"? Remember the Foundation works to form policy in countries to benefit health and general welfare. It is a highly-rated highly-effective organization. That the Foundation can get dictators to contribute money for public health programs for instance, is a tremendous achievement.
  - pessimizer 10y ago
    If by that you mean that they burn enormous sums of money donated by dictators in return for access in order to generate reports that no one reads.

jacquesm 10y ago

It's not so strange. Hint: Oil.

nickik 10y ago
We really need that Syrian Oil ... Oil is a terrible explaition for most of whats going on. Oil serves as a backdrop why the US originally got in the region. However, you can explain nothing that happens short term by pointing to oil.

pmyjavec 10y ago

Sadly, it's because we're all fed nonsense and propaganda, constantly by our governments, corporations and media outlets. People are way to entertained and comfortable that it's just all too convenient to ignore. Even people's social media feeds can be tweaked to change people's views enmasse,not saying they are, but it's a real possibility. I stopped reading "The Guardian", Facebook and most main stream media sites and my mental health is much better for it. There is a serious war going on in which innocent civillians are dying and we don't actually, fully understand why, but it's being funded with our tax money. We need to wake up. I honestly believe the current implementation / configuration of western democracy in the west has been failing us for far too long, the system needs a major overhaul.

nickik 10y ago
Please don't spread the idea that its all funded by the west. Local actors are the most imporant players, not the global powers. The war in Syria and Iraq is financed by a hole variaty of countries, organisation and people. ISIS gets money not from Saudi Arabia but by taxation. I have also stopped reading mainstream media on these subjects. Fortunatly you can still find experts on these subjects, writting articals, blogpost or give talks.
- pmyjavec 10y ago
  How do you actually know how the money flows in that mess, I'm genuinely curious ? By the way, you're right, I'm not saying it's entirely funded by the west, but those weapons are coming from somewhere. Do local players have fighter jets, drones etc ?
  - nickik 10y ago
    Well I can only trust experts on these things. You can find these stuff from different people and organisation. Its sometimes hard to figure out who to believe but I think you can find a reasonable amount of agreement. > By the way, you're right, I'm not saying it's entirely funded by the west, but those weapons are coming from somewhere. Yes they do, but there are a lot of actors in play, the west are just one of the players, and not the biggest one. Western weapons get resold quite a bit as well. The Syrian war is so complex because the huge amount of local, regional and global actors. All have different goals and values. Almost all regional and global actors provide some form of assistant to the groups they prefer. Often in the form of money or weapons of course. I would say in all of the West was comparatively hesitant in doing to much. Mostly because they like non of the people fighting and those they like, some of their allies don't like. The US for example, would love to support the PYD (even more), but Turkey essentially says PYD=PKK and the US has the PKK on the terror list. It seems that even most Foreign policy experts are highly unsure how to handle the current situation. > Do local players have fighter jets, drones etc ? No, but most fighting is not done with fighter jets and drones. Also, regional players, such as Jordan, Turkey, Iran and so on DO have fighter jets. The US could of course stop selling jets to Jordan but that would not change the current situation very much. Plus it would have many other effects. In my opinion the hole ME policy should be rethought but that needs a larger context.

mcguire 10y ago

I was particularly amused by the recent attack ads against Clinton, reporting that repressive countries that had the death penalty for homosexuality, etc., supported the Clinton Foundation. They carefully don't mention the country: That would be the Bushs' Saudi Arabia.

JoeAltmaier 10y ago
"Supported" means "contributed to the programs that benefit their people"? Remember the Foundation works to form policy in countries to benefit health and general welfare. It is a highly-rated highly-effective organization. That the Foundation can get dictators to contribute money for public health programs for instance, is a tremendous achievement.
- pessimizer 10y ago
  If by that you mean that they burn enormous sums of money donated by dictators in return for access in order to generate reports that no one reads.