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I wonder whether the Swiss system of proportional representation contributes to the relative sanity and/or to the Swiss people's confidence in the system. As a

I wonder whether the Swiss system of proportional representation contributes to the relative sanity and/or to the Swiss people's confidence in the system. As a British person, I envy people who live in countries with proportional representation, but I don't understand the Swiss system.

scalio 10y ago
The confidence comes from two things: proportional representation and direct democracy. The people vote about the tiniest of issues (should the sound-proofing be extended on this bit of highway?), which gives a feeling of direct power. It's awesome, but probably doesn't scale all that well since everything is 'scoped', i.e. only those affected by the outcome get to vote, meaning the bureaucratic effort is immense (maybe that's something where AI can help?).
- lambertsimnel 10y ago
  Switzerland could be an inspiration for the UK, especially considering its financial sector and its unique relationship with the EU. Direct democracy is talked about more and more here in the UK. We've had several referendums over the last few years. The questions are: Were the referendum results determined by dirty tricks? Why hold referendums when we elect (and pay for) governments to make decisions on our behalf? Would referendums be necessary if parliament were representative (in the statistical sense) of voters? Have the referendums really settled the issues, or will the same questions be asked again?
elcapitan 10y ago
The downside with proportional representation is that it really only works as long as you have "near two party" conditions. I.e. two large parties plus a couple of smaller parties are ok. Once you have many medium sized parties, the outcome of your vote on a respective government becomes completely unpredictable as well, because you will get pretty random coalitions. Because this forces all parties to get rid of major disagreements, it feeds fringe demagogues agitating against the "mainstream". Eventually those conditions can lead to "great coalitions" of the remaining larger parties, which then have 2/3 majorities and similar things you would want to avoid.
- lambertsimnel 10y ago
  The problem we have in the UK is that multiparty politics has arrived and the existing First Past the Post system has the same problems and more. For example, it has a habit of handing power to a party without a majority of votes (randomly, when it doesn't produce coalitions). If you take the view that majority rule and minority rights is necessary for democracy, a majority government without a majority of votes is a problem. If you don't take that view, then you would probably want a different non-proportional voting system, but we've already rejected AV (instant runoff voting) in a referendum.

scalio 10y ago

The confidence comes from two things: proportional representation and direct democracy. The people vote about the tiniest of issues (should the sound-proofing be extended on this bit of highway?), which gives a feeling of direct power. It's awesome, but probably doesn't scale all that well since everything is 'scoped', i.e. only those affected by the outcome get to vote, meaning the bureaucratic effort is immense (maybe that's something where AI can help?).

lambertsimnel 10y ago
Switzerland could be an inspiration for the UK, especially considering its financial sector and its unique relationship with the EU. Direct democracy is talked about more and more here in the UK. We've had several referendums over the last few years. The questions are: Were the referendum results determined by dirty tricks? Why hold referendums when we elect (and pay for) governments to make decisions on our behalf? Would referendums be necessary if parliament were representative (in the statistical sense) of voters? Have the referendums really settled the issues, or will the same questions be asked again?

elcapitan 10y ago

The downside with proportional representation is that it really only works as long as you have "near two party" conditions. I.e. two large parties plus a couple of smaller parties are ok. Once you have many medium sized parties, the outcome of your vote on a respective government becomes completely unpredictable as well, because you will get pretty random coalitions. Because this forces all parties to get rid of major disagreements, it feeds fringe demagogues agitating against the "mainstream". Eventually those conditions can lead to "great coalitions" of the remaining larger parties, which then have 2/3 majorities and similar things you would want to avoid.

lambertsimnel 10y ago
The problem we have in the UK is that multiparty politics has arrived and the existing First Past the Post system has the same problems and more. For example, it has a habit of handing power to a party without a majority of votes (randomly, when it doesn't produce coalitions). If you take the view that majority rule and minority rights is necessary for democracy, a majority government without a majority of votes is a problem. If you don't take that view, then you would probably want a different non-proportional voting system, but we've already rejected AV (instant runoff voting) in a referendum.