3 ms·

It's unfortunate that's how you read my comment, and I take full responsibility for failing to write an unambiguous comment. I did not mean to blame the victim,

by cm3 10y ago

It's unfortunate that's how you read my comment, and I take full responsibility for failing to write an unambiguous comment. I did not mean to blame the victim, and don't think I did, but I'm willing to improve the wording to not repeat what you say blames the victim. Please quote what parts can be read in a way that I didn't intend them to be. In fact, what I tried to express is that due to the way sexuality is handled in most societies, we mistreat rape victims as a result. I'm sorry I failed to be clear about that.

Mz 10y ago
You do not need to apologize. This is a hard point to make and trying to make it is highly likely to be wildly misinterpreted, no matter your phrasing. Don't take it personally. It might help to disengage for a bit and let people say whatever dumb stuff they are going to say. You are not required to reply to every single comment. Sometimes it is more effective to be a bit selective about what you reply to. Best. Edit: You have the top comment. So some people are silently agreeing with you by upvoting you.
- KirinDave 10y ago
  I'm fascinated by how youve taken the majority opinion-that this woman's death was inevitable-and spun it as a courageous opinion on the face of overwhelming venom. Your opinion is not silent cheering, but rather a deafening thunder that reminds women every day of the place society as put them in. The ingenuity with which people continue to reframe every story about rape around "what drove men to do it" and to reinforce the message that such actions are a pressure from a society that is in fact biased against men's sexual needs is amazing.
  - Mz 10y ago
    I am fascinated by your ability to put words in my mouth and make stuff up about my views whole cloth. Edit: Your comments are delicious irony given how often I get accused of being a feminist on this forum and accused of writing feminist blogposts merely for being openly female and giving my personal opinions here.
    - tptacek 10y ago
      Probably this part of the thread isn't going to go anywhere productive. You both have things to say that I am interested in hearing --- although in this case, Michele, I think you're wrong. But at this point tone has decisively sabotaged the conversation. Doesn't matter whose fault it is; it's just a fact now.
      - Mz 10y ago
        And yet you choose to crab at the woman and not at the member who is putting words in my mouth and tarring me. Because your whiteknighting tendencies do so much good for the status of women on HN.
        tptacek 10y ago
        If you really think I'm "white knighting" a woman shamed to suicide for her own rape, I think the point I just tried to make should be even clearer.
        Mz 10y ago
        If you fail to see that you never, ever engaging the top ranked woman here except to shoot her down completely contradicts your stated concern for the status of women, well, I don't know what to say to that. But, then, I never have known, which is why I haven't said it. You do this sort of thing a lot and it is much more about enhancing your ego than about enhancing the status of women, which you seem to be not terribly knowledgeable about how to do effectively.
        tptacek 10y ago
        It's super weird to me that you perceive me this way, because my working model for you on this site is that I'm generally pretty happy to see you appearing in threads, and that we have an unusual amount of agreement with each other. I do not care about your assessment of how well I'm enhancing the status of women. I'm not an "ally", just a commenter with opinions. You can score me an "F" on the rest of it --- I take no offense. PS: For whatever it's worth, I simplied replied to the last comment on the thread --- I didn't single you out. But the thought did go through my mind that I should be relieved I was responding to you and not Dave, because Dave would flip the fuck out if I stepped in. :)
tptacek 10y ago
I disagree with Michele, and think that if you ever have a comment like that to do over with, maybe save the concerns about the reputations of people accused of sexual assault for stories that aren't about women shamed into suicide for their own rapes.

by cm3 10y ago

Mz 10y ago

You do not need to apologize. This is a hard point to make and trying to make it is highly likely to be wildly misinterpreted, no matter your phrasing. Don't take it personally. It might help to disengage for a bit and let people say whatever dumb stuff they are going to say. You are not required to reply to every single comment. Sometimes it is more effective to be a bit selective about what you reply to. Best. Edit: You have the top comment. So some people are silently agreeing with you by upvoting you.

KirinDave 10y ago
I'm fascinated by how youve taken the majority opinion-that this woman's death was inevitable-and spun it as a courageous opinion on the face of overwhelming venom. Your opinion is not silent cheering, but rather a deafening thunder that reminds women every day of the place society as put them in. The ingenuity with which people continue to reframe every story about rape around "what drove men to do it" and to reinforce the message that such actions are a pressure from a society that is in fact biased against men's sexual needs is amazing.
- Mz 10y ago
  I am fascinated by your ability to put words in my mouth and make stuff up about my views whole cloth. Edit: Your comments are delicious irony given how often I get accused of being a feminist on this forum and accused of writing feminist blogposts merely for being openly female and giving my personal opinions here.
  - tptacek 10y ago
    Probably this part of the thread isn't going to go anywhere productive. You both have things to say that I am interested in hearing --- although in this case, Michele, I think you're wrong. But at this point tone has decisively sabotaged the conversation. Doesn't matter whose fault it is; it's just a fact now.
    - Mz 10y ago
      And yet you choose to crab at the woman and not at the member who is putting words in my mouth and tarring me. Because your whiteknighting tendencies do so much good for the status of women on HN.
      - tptacek 10y ago
        If you really think I'm "white knighting" a woman shamed to suicide for her own rape, I think the point I just tried to make should be even clearer.
        Mz 10y ago
        If you fail to see that you never, ever engaging the top ranked woman here except to shoot her down completely contradicts your stated concern for the status of women, well, I don't know what to say to that. But, then, I never have known, which is why I haven't said it. You do this sort of thing a lot and it is much more about enhancing your ego than about enhancing the status of women, which you seem to be not terribly knowledgeable about how to do effectively.
        tptacek 10y ago
        It's super weird to me that you perceive me this way, because my working model for you on this site is that I'm generally pretty happy to see you appearing in threads, and that we have an unusual amount of agreement with each other. I do not care about your assessment of how well I'm enhancing the status of women. I'm not an "ally", just a commenter with opinions. You can score me an "F" on the rest of it --- I take no offense. PS: For whatever it's worth, I simplied replied to the last comment on the thread --- I didn't single you out. But the thought did go through my mind that I should be relieved I was responding to you and not Dave, because Dave would flip the fuck out if I stepped in. :)

tptacek 10y ago

I disagree with Michele, and think that if you ever have a comment like that to do over with, maybe save the concerns about the reputations of people accused of sexual assault for stories that aren't about women shamed into suicide for their own rapes.