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This is terrible, but blaming WhatsApp seems like a weird leap of logic. If someone harassed you over the phone, you wouldn't blame the telecom company. If some

This is terrible, but blaming WhatsApp seems like a weird leap of logic. If someone harassed you over the phone, you wouldn't blame the telecom company. If someone sent you a death threat in the mail, you wouldn't sue the postal service. If someone hit you with their car, you wouldn't retaliate against the automaker. It seems like the BBC is just bringing up the name of the popular chat app as a way of generating more clicks. If their goal is raise awareness for the woman who died and people like her, that's noble but a bit misguided. If their goal is simply to generate more viewership and revenue for their website (which it seems like it is), it's deplorable.

vehementi 10y ago
What part of the article did you find was blaming WhatsApp here?
- afarrell 10y ago
  The title
kyle-w 10y ago
Are you kidding me? WhatsApp want to be in the hands of the uneducated and illiterate and Zuckerberg takes every chance he gets to say this is going to make the world a better place. If that's the claim they make, they better feel responsible when there are unintended consequences like rural men using the platform as a distribution system for illegal porn. If every time there are unintended consequences in software and bugs don't get filled, guess what the system does not fix itself. This has to be treated the same way.
- stinkytaco 10y ago
  >If every time there are unintended consequences in software and bugs don't get filled, guess what the system does not fix itself. This has to be treated the same way. I don't think this analogy really holds. It's not a "bug", the system works as intended. The big difference between a system like Facebook or WhatsApp and a telco is not that it's the responsibility of the platform -- WhatsApp is not encouraging abuse -- but the fact that abuse can be monitored for. This raises the interesting question of moral culpability. If the crime can be prevented with certain tools (in this case monitoring tools), is it the responsibility of the platform to do so? It seems that we are shifting more and more to the "yes" end of that spectrum.
  - narrowrail 10y ago
    >is it the responsibility of the platform to do so? This is a question the platform needs to answer for itself, and is fundamentally just a 'safety vs. freedom' decision. Some platforms will select for freedom and others will select for safety. Decentralized systems will, by their nature, err on the side on freedom. By the time decentralized networks are viable/usable, I think the general populace will be more interested in such things. The curated, safe experiences will be the dominion of corporations.
  - rhizome 10y ago
    If the crime can be prevented with certain tools (in this case monitoring tools), is it the responsibility of the platform to do so? It seems that we are shifting more and more to the "yes" end of that spectrum. This seems related to a question I've had in wake of mass shootings, when others claim that concealed carry (or more guns in general) would have changed the outcome: should those carrying guns in the vicinity be blamed for not entering the fray?
tptacek 10y ago
The article doesn't blame WhatsApp, any more than a story abut a murder in Tulsa called "The Tulsa Murder" would be blaming Tulsa. WhatsApp is not the victim here.
- afarrell 10y ago
  The proper analogy is more to The Cragslist Killer
- mSparks 10y ago
  the brief was to discourage use of whatsapp. they were given the title. they just didn't write exactly what the ghcq boss that gave them the story to write wanted.
summarite 10y ago
Actually thinking about it, whatsapp can play a role. They say they want to find ways to stop the spread of such videos - we all know that's nearly impossible on the internet as a whole, but in a world where for most people the internet might be primarily whatsapp or similar there is an obvious way: check files against a database of hashes for 'prohibited' files. Same way Dropbox checks for copyright violations, YouTube for copyrighted video and sound or Microsoft's child porn checker. So you could say if the company would want to address this issue, which is largely occurring on and through its technology, it could do so. You wouldn't be able to stop initial spreas, but if people get the chance to report the spread might be stopped quite early exactly because it's such a conservative society. Not saying that's the ultimate solution(or even a desirable one) and there are plenty of caveats - but if companies wanted to address the issue they could at least try, so whatsapp/fb is certainly not 100℅ off the hook. That they haven't made any attempt to provide mechanisms to stop this kind of thing was their choice. Or is there something that just wasn't active here? Eg does whatsapp block child porn distribution or copyrighted materials? Fb is pretty strict on that kind of stuff so I'd be surprised if there's really no mechanism yet.
- makomk 10y ago
  Whatsapp is end-to-end encrypted, remember, including the contents of videos. In order to block videos they'd basically have to undo that and give themselves the ability to monitor everything that everyone is sending, including private consensual sexual content.
mSparks 10y ago
Pretty much nail hit head. They even ran all the way to India to make sure the only thing most readers can associate with is the phone app. Laced with innuendo that no one who was raped ever committed suicide. And ignoring the general theme in the region to prosecute the woman after a rape for sex out of wedlock. instead, lets pick on the phone app that wont let the government read your messages. That is all there is to see here.

vehementi 10y ago

What part of the article did you find was blaming WhatsApp here?

afarrell 10y ago
The title

kyle-w 10y ago

Are you kidding me? WhatsApp want to be in the hands of the uneducated and illiterate and Zuckerberg takes every chance he gets to say this is going to make the world a better place. If that's the claim they make, they better feel responsible when there are unintended consequences like rural men using the platform as a distribution system for illegal porn. If every time there are unintended consequences in software and bugs don't get filled, guess what the system does not fix itself. This has to be treated the same way.

stinkytaco 10y ago
>If every time there are unintended consequences in software and bugs don't get filled, guess what the system does not fix itself. This has to be treated the same way. I don't think this analogy really holds. It's not a "bug", the system works as intended. The big difference between a system like Facebook or WhatsApp and a telco is not that it's the responsibility of the platform -- WhatsApp is not encouraging abuse -- but the fact that abuse can be monitored for. This raises the interesting question of moral culpability. If the crime can be prevented with certain tools (in this case monitoring tools), is it the responsibility of the platform to do so? It seems that we are shifting more and more to the "yes" end of that spectrum.
- narrowrail 10y ago
  >is it the responsibility of the platform to do so? This is a question the platform needs to answer for itself, and is fundamentally just a 'safety vs. freedom' decision. Some platforms will select for freedom and others will select for safety. Decentralized systems will, by their nature, err on the side on freedom. By the time decentralized networks are viable/usable, I think the general populace will be more interested in such things. The curated, safe experiences will be the dominion of corporations.
- rhizome 10y ago
  If the crime can be prevented with certain tools (in this case monitoring tools), is it the responsibility of the platform to do so? It seems that we are shifting more and more to the "yes" end of that spectrum. This seems related to a question I've had in wake of mass shootings, when others claim that concealed carry (or more guns in general) would have changed the outcome: should those carrying guns in the vicinity be blamed for not entering the fray?

tptacek 10y ago

The article doesn't blame WhatsApp, any more than a story abut a murder in Tulsa called "The Tulsa Murder" would be blaming Tulsa. WhatsApp is not the victim here.

afarrell 10y ago
The proper analogy is more to The Cragslist Killer
mSparks 10y ago
the brief was to discourage use of whatsapp. they were given the title. they just didn't write exactly what the ghcq boss that gave them the story to write wanted.

summarite 10y ago

Actually thinking about it, whatsapp can play a role. They say they want to find ways to stop the spread of such videos - we all know that's nearly impossible on the internet as a whole, but in a world where for most people the internet might be primarily whatsapp or similar there is an obvious way: check files against a database of hashes for 'prohibited' files. Same way Dropbox checks for copyright violations, YouTube for copyrighted video and sound or Microsoft's child porn checker. So you could say if the company would want to address this issue, which is largely occurring on and through its technology, it could do so. You wouldn't be able to stop initial spreas, but if people get the chance to report the spread might be stopped quite early exactly because it's such a conservative society. Not saying that's the ultimate solution(or even a desirable one) and there are plenty of caveats - but if companies wanted to address the issue they could at least try, so whatsapp/fb is certainly not 100℅ off the hook. That they haven't made any attempt to provide mechanisms to stop this kind of thing was their choice. Or is there something that just wasn't active here? Eg does whatsapp block child porn distribution or copyrighted materials? Fb is pretty strict on that kind of stuff so I'd be surprised if there's really no mechanism yet.

makomk 10y ago
Whatsapp is end-to-end encrypted, remember, including the contents of videos. In order to block videos they'd basically have to undo that and give themselves the ability to monitor everything that everyone is sending, including private consensual sexual content.

mSparks 10y ago

Pretty much nail hit head. They even ran all the way to India to make sure the only thing most readers can associate with is the phone app. Laced with innuendo that no one who was raped ever committed suicide. And ignoring the general theme in the region to prosecute the woman after a rape for sex out of wedlock. instead, lets pick on the phone app that wont let the government read your messages. That is all there is to see here.